Cunobelin Of Hippo
Site Pachyderm
The Greeks should be Scientific/Militaristic.
Benz
Chieftain
No, I think the Greek are more reprensetative of their history as they set it.
Maybe the German could be set as Scientific and militaristic. However, keep in mind that it occurs only in the second word war. From before jesus christ till today, were they like this? Because the wwII had that much effect on our future, I guess it deserv this set.
Yes the French do look like one of the most interesting setting to have. Unless... they have the most interesting setting to have as an ally. Greek and Babylonians either. Civilizations that are not either militaristic and expensionist could be a good ally.
It is not easy to tell in advance which setting can be the best. Many other factors can change the datas. Who could have guess how usefull communist could be in Civ2?
Maybe the German could be set as Scientific and militaristic. However, keep in mind that it occurs only in the second word war. From before jesus christ till today, were they like this? Because the wwII had that much effect on our future, I guess it deserv this set.
Yes the French do look like one of the most interesting setting to have. Unless... they have the most interesting setting to have as an ally. Greek and Babylonians either. Civilizations that are not either militaristic and expensionist could be a good ally.
It is not easy to tell in advance which setting can be the best. Many other factors can change the datas. Who could have guess how usefull communist could be in Civ2?
thedirk
Master of Stealth
It clearly quite difficult to condense a civilization down to two main characteristis. This will always be reductionist and overly simple. However, in a game, that's a reality.
What surprized me was that they did not set one Civ per combination. Rather certain combinations have more than one civ while other combinations have no civ. That is, certain traits have more representation than other traits. Only 4 have scientific, while several traits have 6 civs. This throws the game off balance a little, or does it?
Thoughts?
What surprized me was that they did not set one Civ per combination. Rather certain combinations have more than one civ while other combinations have no civ. That is, certain traits have more representation than other traits. Only 4 have scientific, while several traits have 6 civs. This throws the game off balance a little, or does it?
Thoughts?
G
Graeme the mad
Guest
Benz - just gotta point it out
you said about germany - from the time of Jesus christ to now were they like this?
Well no because germany is only about 150 years old: so military has played a big part in their empire
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people
you said about germany - from the time of Jesus christ to now were they like this?
Well no because germany is only about 150 years old: so military has played a big part in their empire
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people
Just based off of the chart they showed on civ3.com I would have to say I will be trying the english first. It looks like they would fit my stlye of play and allow my name to be with the correct civ too!
That may change very quickly once I find out what factors are the most important in the game.
That may change very quickly once I find out what factors are the most important in the game.
dreadhead7
Peacemonger
Dang, now there goes my strategy. I'm usually a Zulu, but a smart and peaceful one, real big on tech and trade as well as expansion. Now they've gone and limited me, and I can't be a smart Zulu in Civ3. Darn! We Zulus always get the shaft. Hmm. Maybe I'll customize for another African tribe. Or, customize the Zulus to my own preferences.
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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg
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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg
S
Scrooge
Guest
All You Poor Fellow Disinherited Nations Relax and Rejoice
(as they say in Firaxis) with the brand-new, zippy and user-friendly Nation Editor, you'll get to design your nationality of any flavor, color or else.
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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT size="2">"Duckland must put an end to war before war puts an end to Duckland"
- J.Quack Kennedy </FONT s></FONT f>
[This message has been edited by Scrooge (edited August 15, 2001).]
(as they say in Firaxis) with the brand-new, zippy and user-friendly Nation Editor, you'll get to design your nationality of any flavor, color or else.
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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT size="2">"Duckland must put an end to war before war puts an end to Duckland"
- J.Quack Kennedy </FONT s></FONT f>
[This message has been edited by Scrooge (edited August 15, 2001).]
G
Graeme the mad
Guest
Quote from dreadhead
'I'm usually a Zulu, but a smart and peaceful one, real big on tech and trade as well as expansion'
You still can be you fool
Just because you dont get an advantage with the zulus towards these thigns doesnt mean you cant play this way.
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people
'I'm usually a Zulu, but a smart and peaceful one, real big on tech and trade as well as expansion'
You still can be you fool
Just because you dont get an advantage with the zulus towards these thigns doesnt mean you cant play this way.
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people
kundor
Chairman of the H.I.V.E.
It looks like the Romans and Chinese will be my civs...starting out anyway. The industrious is great, and either science or military would be my second choice...Between the two, Romans can be an unstoppable juggernaut when you throw in legions, it seems to me...And the science can be useful when you go for AC...so Romans to conquer, Chinese to spaceship.
As far as dreadhead and his Zulus: Yes, he can still play scientific and peaceful, and even benefit from the opposing abilities: Even if he doesn't pay attention to his military, if a war starts, he'll have that civ ability to fall back on!
As far as dreadhead and his Zulus: Yes, he can still play scientific and peaceful, and even benefit from the opposing abilities: Even if he doesn't pay attention to his military, if a war starts, he'll have that civ ability to fall back on!
P
Phorever Phalanx
Guest
Note that every ability gets a free early tech, so there is little difference there unless you must have that one. Here's my take on the effects:
Military: 1. "reduced ... improvement costs" is this upgrades, ala SMAC (goodbye Leonardo's Workshop) or less costly barracks, coastal fortress? in any case this just reduces costs 2. "promotions more likely" - in Civ II, barracks or Sun Tzu were important because of big difference for veteran units. In SMAC, elite status was not as big a jump, although units gained a movement point. Summary: less costly to upgrade. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 5
Commercial: 1. "extra commerce in city center" improves money/science/luxuries, better with more cities, small impact for large cities 2. "lower corruption" usually not a factor in civ 2 unless really far-flung with bad government. Summary: more stuff if lots of cities. timeframe: mostly mid-game. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 3
Expansion 1. "better stuff from villages" only early game advantage 2. "start with scout" same thing. Summary: if anything but "villages only" option selected, this is a very weak combination. timeframe: just early game. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 3
Science: 1. "free random tech at beginning of each new era" with 4(?) eras this is civ2 philosophy+darwin's voyage+1 additional tech, this is big! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/cool.gif" border=0> 2. "reduced science improvement costs" this, along with military and religion #1, suggests less costly library, university, research lab (why doesn't commercial have less costly marketplace, bank?) Summary: this one looks big to me. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 7
Religious: 1. "reduce cost for buildings" like previous 2. "no anarchy between governments" like statue of liberty, which I used to get to fundamentalism quick or return to democracy after missing a city in revolt 2 turns. Summary: less costly to keep people happy. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 5
Industrious: 1. "workers work faster" this could be big, depends on how much 2. "extra production in city center" like commerce 1, depends on number of cities. Summary: more stuff if lots of cities. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 6
So, it looks like the Chinese for me, or maybe the Babylonians or the homemade militaristic/scientific civ.
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<FONT COLOR="blue"><FONT size="4">Phorever</FONT c><FONT COLOR="orange">Phalanx</FONT c></FONT s>
<FONT size="2">"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." Winston Churchill</FONT s>
[This message has been edited by Phorever Phalanx (edited August 15, 2001).]
Military: 1. "reduced ... improvement costs" is this upgrades, ala SMAC (goodbye Leonardo's Workshop) or less costly barracks, coastal fortress? in any case this just reduces costs 2. "promotions more likely" - in Civ II, barracks or Sun Tzu were important because of big difference for veteran units. In SMAC, elite status was not as big a jump, although units gained a movement point. Summary: less costly to upgrade. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 5
Commercial: 1. "extra commerce in city center" improves money/science/luxuries, better with more cities, small impact for large cities 2. "lower corruption" usually not a factor in civ 2 unless really far-flung with bad government. Summary: more stuff if lots of cities. timeframe: mostly mid-game. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 3
Expansion 1. "better stuff from villages" only early game advantage 2. "start with scout" same thing. Summary: if anything but "villages only" option selected, this is a very weak combination. timeframe: just early game. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 3
Science: 1. "free random tech at beginning of each new era" with 4(?) eras this is civ2 philosophy+darwin's voyage+1 additional tech, this is big! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/cool.gif" border=0> 2. "reduced science improvement costs" this, along with military and religion #1, suggests less costly library, university, research lab (why doesn't commercial have less costly marketplace, bank?) Summary: this one looks big to me. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 7
Religious: 1. "reduce cost for buildings" like previous 2. "no anarchy between governments" like statue of liberty, which I used to get to fundamentalism quick or return to democracy after missing a city in revolt 2 turns. Summary: less costly to keep people happy. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 5
Industrious: 1. "workers work faster" this could be big, depends on how much 2. "extra production in city center" like commerce 1, depends on number of cities. Summary: more stuff if lots of cities. timeframe: throughout. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/grad.gif" border=0>score: 6
So, it looks like the Chinese for me, or maybe the Babylonians or the homemade militaristic/scientific civ.
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<FONT COLOR="blue"><FONT size="4">Phorever</FONT c><FONT COLOR="orange">Phalanx</FONT c></FONT s>
<FONT size="2">"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." Winston Churchill</FONT s>
[This message has been edited by Phorever Phalanx (edited August 15, 2001).]
hannibol43
Hannibol Paynebring'r
I will haveto customize and make the Carthaginians Expantionist Commercial (maybe get rid of the English). i also agree that Germany should be military scientific that was the first thing i noticed about the chart. Anyway if i can't play as the Carthaginians with Hannibal as their leader then I suppose the Egyptians will do.
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"Hannibol Ad Portas!"
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"Hannibol Ad Portas!"
V
viking
Guest
Mostly agree with your analysis Phorever Phalanx. I always customize my starting values in Master of Orion 2 to be Scientific/Industrious, and always defeat the Militaristic rabble with better weapons. So at least to start with, I'll explore the Civ3 world as the Chinese.
S
SunZi36
Guest
I also agree with Phorever Phalanx's analysis. I fact here is what I posted in the apolyton civilization forum:
"The only info about the attributes I have is the table from the civ3 site (they have listed the 2 effects for each attribute there). I would think industrious and scientific is the best, which is the Chinese, also the civilization I use most often in civ2.
I think all the reduce improvement costs effects (military, scientific and religious) are moderately useful. Depends how much is reduced or are there much more improvements of the particular type than in civ2.
More likely battlefield promotions (military) are not that useful bcos u can build barracks pretty cheaply unless they change this in civ3 or unless they mean likely by like 3 times normal.
I don't think lower corruption (commercial) is useful either if in civ3 they keep it pretty fast to get Monarchy or Republic which then doesn't take a long time until u get communsim as well. This drags down the commercial attribute bcos more commerce in city centre is rather useful.
The attributes for Expansionist I think is the least useful. How much does the barbarian villages normally affect your game in civ2? And the one scout to start with I don't think would affect the game a lot. It's better for them to change it to something like less food support for settlers or settlers porduction cost reduced or faster populatin growth. But then I guess they should make some attributes a bit less useful than others so the game is not perfectly balanced. There should be some superior civilizations.
A random tech each new age (scientific) is more than moderately useful. that means 4 free technologies. Twice the wonder of Darwin's voyage in civ2 (although it was not random).
I don't think no Anarchy between gov's (religious) is useful bcos the Anarchy normally is pretty short. And with the new technology (nationalism) you can mobilse your country for war so there might be even less urge to swtich govs for war.
Lastly, industrious effects. Workers work faster to me is very useful. Builds irrigation, mines, roads faster contributes to your cities and your civ overall. And more production in city centre is about as useful as more commerce in city centre. But one thing is that productivity might not be as important bcos you can now moblize with nationalism, so I have to play to be sure of the effect.
By the way, I didn't analyse the starting techs bcos i think they are not that influecial as each civ start with 2 out of 6 of them anyway and can research them pretty easily.
To summarise: (attribute: effect 1/ effect2)
militaristic: moderately useful/ not that useful;
commercial: useful/not useful
expansionist: not useful/ not useful
scientific: useful/ useful
religious: useful/ not useful
industrious: useful/useful
So I conclude that scientific and industrious are the best."
"The only info about the attributes I have is the table from the civ3 site (they have listed the 2 effects for each attribute there). I would think industrious and scientific is the best, which is the Chinese, also the civilization I use most often in civ2.
I think all the reduce improvement costs effects (military, scientific and religious) are moderately useful. Depends how much is reduced or are there much more improvements of the particular type than in civ2.
More likely battlefield promotions (military) are not that useful bcos u can build barracks pretty cheaply unless they change this in civ3 or unless they mean likely by like 3 times normal.
I don't think lower corruption (commercial) is useful either if in civ3 they keep it pretty fast to get Monarchy or Republic which then doesn't take a long time until u get communsim as well. This drags down the commercial attribute bcos more commerce in city centre is rather useful.
The attributes for Expansionist I think is the least useful. How much does the barbarian villages normally affect your game in civ2? And the one scout to start with I don't think would affect the game a lot. It's better for them to change it to something like less food support for settlers or settlers porduction cost reduced or faster populatin growth. But then I guess they should make some attributes a bit less useful than others so the game is not perfectly balanced. There should be some superior civilizations.
A random tech each new age (scientific) is more than moderately useful. that means 4 free technologies. Twice the wonder of Darwin's voyage in civ2 (although it was not random).
I don't think no Anarchy between gov's (religious) is useful bcos the Anarchy normally is pretty short. And with the new technology (nationalism) you can mobilse your country for war so there might be even less urge to swtich govs for war.
Lastly, industrious effects. Workers work faster to me is very useful. Builds irrigation, mines, roads faster contributes to your cities and your civ overall. And more production in city centre is about as useful as more commerce in city centre. But one thing is that productivity might not be as important bcos you can now moblize with nationalism, so I have to play to be sure of the effect.
By the way, I didn't analyse the starting techs bcos i think they are not that influecial as each civ start with 2 out of 6 of them anyway and can research them pretty easily.
To summarise: (attribute: effect 1/ effect2)
militaristic: moderately useful/ not that useful;
commercial: useful/not useful
expansionist: not useful/ not useful
scientific: useful/ useful
religious: useful/ not useful
industrious: useful/useful
So I conclude that scientific and industrious are the best."
