best religious beliefs for a tall play style?

[darkace77450]

You're all thinking it, so let's address the elephant in room. I know playing tall isn't optimal. I understand this. I'm okay with this. Now that that's out of the way...

What religious beliefs do you think are optimal for tall play?

I'm wanting to play for a Score Victory (with the game set to a shorter turn limit, of course). As best I can figure - and I might be off a bit on this - each city is worth ~25 points and each point of population is worth 1 point. Since my empire won't be a sprawling one, I'll have to squeeze as much out of the population side of the equation as I can.

This means growing my cities tall, which in turn requires A) lots of food, and B) plenty of housing. It will also require quite a few amenities, but those are easily enough acquired without sacrificing religious beliefs. To help me pack as many citizens into each of my cities as I can, I'm going to tailor my religion to that end.

Looking at the beliefs, I can get a total of +8 food from a Holy Site if I take Feed the World and Gurdwara. Alternatively, I can get +3 housing from a Holy Site with Religious Community and Pagoda. Mixing the beliefs for a bit of both is also an option.

I know housing is the more common bottleneck with regards to growing a city's population, but I also know housing is virtually limitless once Neighborhoods (or Mbanzas) become available. I can't help but feed the +food will pay better dividends in the long run - particularly when stacked with the growth boost from Hanging Gardens, Fertility Rites, and an ecstatic population. But the early and mid will undoubtedly run smoother if I roll with an increased housing limit for my population to grow into.

So I'm open to any insight you guys have to offer on the subject. Thanks.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Hmm, I'd take the housing or food depending on which resources are around. If I have enough Rice or Wheat, housing is obviously the bottleneck. My educated guess is that housing is better, since you'll have plenty of people to work farms for food anyway (and farm hexagons instead of farm triangles are viable since you'll probably have so much land between cities).

One other limitation you want to look at are amenities. With few cities, you might not have enough luxuries to cover your high pop. But I've seen starts near 4 luxuries without abundant resources too.

EDIT: If you have a spare belief, I'd really recommend looking at Work Ethic. +1% production per follower seems pretty good when you're going for 20+ pop. I'd rank it even higher than Gurdwaras for you, if it's not capped (like it was in Civ V)

 

[Captain Potato]

I'd be careful with the +growth effects. The percentage only applies to the surplus in food each turn, and is ultimately quite weak. For pantheon, the best for growth imo is the one that gives an amenity to a holy district on a river.

 

[PurplyIcy]

Don't forget 'Defender of the Faith' for enhancer belief. If you're going tall I am assuming you're going for the 'turtle up' strategy, so that +10 combat bonus will make your life much easier.

 

[spfun]

production per pop though if your playing Tall i would recommend Kongo.

 

[kamex]

I often don't use religion at all if going tall. I find that early Holy Sites cripple your economy and you'd be better off with Commercial District and Campus in the long run.

 

[teks]

Kongo houses come 2 eras earlier and provide food and provide +5 pop always, so they are the tall civ for sure. Your not missing much losing on religious buildings in comparison and Kongo is free to pick which neighboring religion they wish to spread using their free apostles. Kongo additionally can get a ridiculous 12 food and 12 production in each city by theming artifacts.

Food just is not a limiting factor at all. Feudalism is very strong and later hills can even be farmed which further compounds this bonus. Once communism is reached you can issue policies which provide even more food from internal trade routes. Food is never going to be a problem making big cities.

So what are the limiting factors?
Housing, of course, but Kongo has this covered completely.
So, we have amenities, and they are a big deal. If you like growth bonuses, surplus amenities gives bonus growth too, so you really want to get those up.

As for religion bonuses for growing tall. The only real one is work ethics for 1℅ production per person. Zen meditation helps with anemities which is a nice pickup as well. Nothing else is really substantial (Though the combat beliefs are very strong I dont think they are strictly for going tall).

Even if you chose not to play Kongo, +2 housing, or +3 food in holy buildings isn't much in the grand scheme, espesially considering the cost to produce those districts and their buildings. You may be slowing tall growth building these more then your helping it. As a tall player I'd want to focus my energy on culture, not religion. Its the culture tree that holds all the essentials for going tall.

 

[UWHabs]

Kongo houses come 2 eras earlier and provide food and provide +5 pop always, so they are the tall civ for sure. Your not missing much losing on religious buildings in comparison and Kongo is free to pick which neighboring religion they wish to spread using their free apostles. Kongo additionally can get a ridiculous 12 food and 12 production in each city by theming artifacts.

Food just is not a limiting factor at all. Feudalism is very strong and later hills can even be farmed which further compounds this bonus. Once communism is reached you can issue policies which provide even more food from internal trade routes. Food is never going to be a problem making big cities.

So what are the limiting factors?
Housing, of course, but Kongo has this covered completely.
So, we have amenities, and they are a big deal. If you like growth bonuses, surplus amenities gives bonus growth too, so you really want to get those up.

As for religion bonuses for growing tall. The only real one is work ethics for 1℅ production per person. Zen meditation helps with anemities which is a nice pickup as well. Nothing else is really substantial (Though the combat beliefs are very strong I dont think they are strictly for going tall).

Even if you chose not to play Kongo, +2 housing, or +3 food in holy buildings isn't much in the grand scheme, espesially considering the cost to produce those districts and their buildings. You may be slowing tall growth building these more then your helping it. As a tall player I'd want to focus my energy on culture, not religion. Its the culture tree that holds all the essentials for going tall.

If the OP is talking about picking a religious belief, then they might not be looking at Kongo. Rome for the Baths or India for Stepwells might also be good civs to pick for this style of play.
Feed the World is +6 food, which is quite a bit. But as mentioned, housing might be the more limiting factor. Of course, for either of those, you also need to dedicate production to building holy sites and spreading religion.

But if the question is basically "food or housing?", not sure there is a right decision there in general. It will depend on the map. I do know that I played a Russia game where my cities were all plains/tundra cities with very little food, and once I got "Feed the World", my cities suddenly were overflowing in food (previously I could barely get my cap to size-4). But in other games my core cities seem to grow fast enough normally that they hit their housing cap pretty early, so in those ones being able to push them a couple sizes higher would have been useful. Especially if you end up with cities that aren't next to fresh water, housing is often a very early limiter.

 

[kaspergm]

I have had good success with the combination that gives housing from Shrines and Temples plus the worship building that provides housing. +3 housing for a city in early game is rather significant. Another good thing about this combo is that it's easy to get - AI doesn't seem to favor these beliefs.