Best settings for 1 vs 1?

[Finite]

Hi,

My friend and I want to try a duel in ciV, at least in there the horrible AI won't be ruining the experience... What settings do you suggest?

On/off
I tried a test duel against AI yesterday on immortal, duel size fractal map, city states off. I noticed that the barbarians get really out of hand, both due them having more places to spawn but nobody to draw their attacks with city states off... So I guess better to have either both off or some easy difficulty level so barbs stay put (but that does change the inherent happiness value, too).
How about huts, do people generally turn them off in mp games?

Game speed
Fast game speed seemed really fast but I guess it is a must if we want to finish the game in a few hours? Or is a duel likely to end fast enough even with normal speed so the ancient units get some decent field time?

Map type
I'm thinking fractal map type, not sure how likely it is that there are still two separate land masses? I guess mirror type maps don't work too well due to the sea in between becoming impassable kill zone, but maybe archipelago would work better?

Any other hints? Are city states worth it in a duel? In my test game I noticed I was struggling with happiness, I guess due to missing trading, so need to keep on eye on that. Also have to identify the wonders to aim for, they seem even more crucial in a duel since not getting one means the other guy gets it.

 

[swordspider]

Hi,

My friend and I want to try a duel in ciV, at least in there the horrible AI won't be ruining the experience... What settings do you suggest?

On/off
I tried a test duel against AI yesterday on immortal, duel size fractal map, city states off. I noticed that the barbarians get really out of hand, both due them having more places to spawn but nobody to draw their attacks with city states off... So I guess better to have either both off or some easy difficulty level so barbs stay put (but that does change the inherent happiness value, too).
How about huts, do people generally turn them off in mp games?

Game speed
Fast game speed seemed really fast but I guess it is a must if we want to finish the game in a few hours? Or is a duel likely to end fast enough even with normal speed so the ancient units get some decent field time?

Map type
I'm thinking fractal map type, not sure how likely it is that there are still two separate land masses? I guess mirror type maps don't work too well due to the sea in between becoming impassable kill zone, but maybe archipelago would work better?

Any other hints? Are city states worth it in a duel? In my test game I noticed I was struggling with happiness, I guess due to missing trading, so need to keep on eye on that. Also have to identify the wonders to aim for, they seem even more crucial in a duel since not getting one means the other guy gets it.

Duels are tricky if you are looking for it to be 'perfectly fair'. I would leave barbs on for sure because how you deal with their early attacking is critical to your skill/success. The only downside is, like already mentioned... sometimes one guy takes 10 barbs and the other guy not a single 1. The trade off is that although you are fighting for your life, your units should be gaining experience. I actually prefer to get hoarded early because that barb defense can get you a Great General pretty quickly (which when used correctly can make up for it 10-fold). Game speed is really just about how long you want the game to go. Most multiplayers play on quick. In a duel, I always tend towards a Pangaea Map. I think that the navigation of the land mass and the strategic usage of its unique attributes, choke points, mountains, etc. is key. I also think the way you expand in that land mass- either trying to take a defensive risk and hog a lot of land or sit tight and grow your capital- are all unique attributes that make the game more interesting.

As far as hints, normally I think Citadels are not a good use of resources (consuming a GG), but if you find yourself on a duel map with definite choke points, a Citadel can be a substantial game changer. Since they are indestructible and deal damage every turn to adjacent units, you can heavily weaken a stronger army. The only catch is you have to be on a choke point because they can be sidestepped with ease.

An issue you may run into is 'rushing', but since it is your friend you should be fine. There are a lot of duelers out there who just build their capital and then pump out Greek Hoplites or Persian Immortals and try to overwhelm you. It is really just not worth playing with those people because that is not skill, it is just how fast you can pump out a bunch of units.

Anyway, have fun. If you ever want to practice, look me up-

 

[Finite]

Thanks, nice comments!

I am not that worried about making it perfectly fair (at least there is something then to blame a loss on =), just enough so that one side doesn't get completely hosed.

I agree on wanting to keep the barbs on, gives something interesting to do near the start. Can you even set the difficulty level to make them more tolerable? I've never played any MP games online (only civ4 in lan) so don't really know.

I figured that great generals are more difficult to use in MP due to simultaneous movement, isn't it hard to keep them protected? As for other unit considerations, also assuming that fast moving units have an edge since in a duel pillaging is probably almost as good as conquering and actually attacking cities isn't that important?

I do like the pangaea suggestion, but I am worried that there are too few choke points in there leaving a wide front? Could it be combined with high sea level or lot of mountains?

Anyway, have fun. If you ever want to practice, look me up-

I will probably need to practice some with my friend before trying to be competitive against you, rather

edit: oh, also I am living in Finland so there is a nasty time zone difference... Appreciate the offer, though.

 

[Finite]

Also one slightly different question - has anyone tried to handle the simultaneous moves so that you have agreed that one player always moves his front line units first and then the other one goes? That would help with the clickfest issues, even though of course needs to be based on gentleman's agreement. It would not take as much time as a hotseat game, as long as both are only moving those units they do not think will affect combat "out of turn".

Would it need any other rules than determining who is first in turn order by some way (like who DOWed first)? Or does it fail in practice for one reason or another?

 

[swordspider]

I agree on wanting to keep the barbs on, gives something interesting to do near the start. Can you even set the difficulty level to make them more tolerable? I've never played any MP games online (only civ4 in lan) so don't really know.

No you can't, the only real option is 'raging barbs' which doubles the rate at which barbs spawn (not camps, the units themselves that come out of the camps).

I figured that great generals are more difficult to use in MP due to simultaneous movement, isn't it hard to keep them protected? As for other unit considerations, also assuming that fast moving units have an edge since in a duel pillaging is probably almost as good as conquering and actually attacking cities isn't that important?

You just need to always keep them under your best unit and move them under your next best unit if that first unit gets damaged. Don't ever let them stand in the open unless there is just no way they can get hit. But even then, a horseman can appear out of nowhere... so just best to keep those generals well covered.

As for pillaging/attacking, well you'll have to figure that balance out for yourself. I typically only advance on a city if I plan to take it, but many people have different strategies. If you could 'hit and run' with pillaging, then yeah, I think it would be effective. Likewise, hit and runs on their workers would be devastating.

I do like the pangaea suggestion, but I am worried that there are too few choke points in there leaving a wide front? Could it be combined with high sea level or lot of mountains?

In a duel map (and pangaea in general) the computer tries to make the landmass 'lifelike'. So you'll find almost guaranteed that there will be mountains between your two starting locations. With the mountains comes definite choke points. The reason I like Pangaea too though is it doesn't eliminate the use of boats (sure they are not super practical) but you can sneak units around the shorelines with optics.

For instance, here is a tactical play I did on a Pangaea duel: I actually sent two guys around the back of the continent and landed them near my opponent's capital, purely as a diversion. I left them right outside the city range and before I knew it there was 8 units there which subsequently crushed them. Well, my diversion worked and my 8 units then seized his 2 forward cities (leaving him only 2 left). Since I now had 6 cities and him only 2, he put up a valiant fight, but in the end I was able to overcome him through sheer numbers.

So anyway, there are a lot of fun scenarios, and you guys should try a lot of different civs and maps. You'll find there are a lot of different ways to win, or lose, in multiplayer.

 

[swordspider]

Also one slightly different question - has anyone tried to handle the simultaneous moves so that you have agreed that one player always moves his front line units first and then the other one goes? That would help with the clickfest issues, even though of course needs to be based on gentleman's agreement. It would not take as much time as a hotseat game, as long as both are only moving those units they do not think will affect combat "out of turn".

Would it need any other rules than determining who is first in turn order by some way (like who DOWed first)? Or does it fail in practice for one reason or another?

Doesn't work. Eventually someone gets antsy or if you are in a losing position you will naturally double-attack a stronger unit to take it out. Additionally, from a strategic standpoint, it is important for you to set your units up in a way that DOES allow you to double-attack in order to be sure his unit doesn't live and use a heal upgrade next turn.

In my experience, the host always has a slight movement advantage, so I'd suggest whoever has the slower computer is actually the host (unless of course that dogs the game). If your machine can RUN CiV though, you should be fine hosting a duel match. It's when you get to 6 players and above that even strong machines start to falter.

 

[Smote]

An issue you may run into is 'rushing', but since it is your friend you should be fine. There are a lot of duelers out there who just build their capital and then pump out Greek Hoplites or Persian Immortals and try to overwhelm you. It is really just not worth playing with those people because that is not skill, it is just how fast you can pump out a bunch of units.

Anyway, have fun. If you ever want to practice, look me up-

I'm curious, what is skill if not:

1. How fast you can pump out a bunch of units.
2. How efficiently you can use army.
3. How fast you can tech.
4. How much you can exploit AI.
5. How fast you can culture.

Are there any other skills?

 

[Tabarnak]

I'm curious, what is skill if not:

1. How fast you can pump out a bunch of units.
2. How efficiently you can use army.
3. How fast you can tech.
4. How much you can exploit AI.
5. How fast you can culture.

Are there any other skills?

How fast is your computer

Seriously, for duel map 1vs1 the best is to play mirror maps like north vs south or 4 corners. More balanced.

 

[Tabarnak]

In a duel map (and pangaea in general) the computer tries to make the landmass 'lifelike'. So you'll find almost guaranteed that there will be mountains between your two starting locations. With the mountains comes definite choke points. The reason I like Pangaea too though is it doesn't eliminate the use of boats (sure they are not super practical) but you can sneak units around the shorelines with optics.

Yeah i remember a game where i reached astronomy after i've got rifles on a pangea map because the other guy had 2 impenetrable choke points. I traveled the other side of map by sea. What a surprise when he saw my army of 12 riflemen floating in water....

He discovered rifles when i finally landed but it was too late. He was pretty sure to hold me with fewer units. But not by sea.

He told me...you know, i got taj, angkor wat, choke points, etc. and i think i will win this game. He had more cities than me. I realized that he had a lot of cities, but a lot of puppets. You can't build units with puppets! FAIL

 

[Finite]

Popping in for a brief AAR and observations in case they might help somebody.

We played the duel yesterday. There was a difficulty dropdown after both players names, we set it to prince for both but no idea what the effect was. Is it to set happiness caps differently for both players? Or is it totally nonfunctional? It seemed so that each player was able to set their own value which is weird if it actually did something.

We set city states off, but maybe we should have kept them on since now we got a neverending horde of barbarians as I suspected (with just normal barb setting). Don't know if city states would have made a difference otherwise, probably presented an option to conquer&puppet but most likely not worth to pour money into.

We took pangaea. It does create some varying terrain like I noticed when testing it, and it does try to put some mountains between you and your opponent. We got a map with a wide single continent with me on the west in some wet river valley, to my right a mountain range and then a large open plain until my enemy located on the other end of the continent in the east.

We set the game pace fast and also set a turn timer on - my friend said there were no options regarding the timer. It was really fast and during some turns there was not enough time to move all units, very little time to plan anything but just click away. The fast pace made the construction times seem even longer than they normally do, making it feel like our countries were hardly developing at all, just racing through eras. Also, I guess it was the quick speed, it was not possible to conquer barbarian camps with archer units, since a new defender spawned immediately when the camp was left empty.

I took the french against my friend's germany. I figured the early culture helps so don't need to waste resources into culture, and that the musketeer seems something nice to aim for since early units go old so fast. I tried to emphasize research by building libraries and a national college so I could get a tech advantage, while keeping enough military (and settling second city on top of horses) to be somewhat safe from an earlier rush.

Turned out that through the game we were mostly involved with fending of the massive amounts of barbarian armies. I should have built more units in the start to destroy the camps as soon as they popped up, it was frustrating to be on the defense. Luckily my opponent was equally busy and struggling with more poor start locations, too.

During the early ages most conflict happened in the neutral zone in the middle, mostly my horses picking up an archer or warrior. A few time I extended raids near their closest city to torch a wine field. Mostly it was solitaire against barbarians, growth being limited by long build times and lack of resources.

In the end I had 4 cities while the enemy just set up a 5th, I had a total of 4 luxury resources and some happiness buildings to keep me barely on positive. Teched musketeers, fielded an army of 3 of them + 2 horsemen, then built 9 or so more musketeers and kept pressing on until I got his frontline city and after that, the capital. He had no counter for the musketeers, having landsknecht and some longswordmen + horsemen, and just teched chivalry.

I think the result was based on me having somewhat better end of the island (river, more secure) and a better civ choice (well I guess he could have gotten more lucky with barbarians). Mostly I remember the annoyance of the clickfest (lost a few units because they earned promotions ) and the rushed turns. Very anticlimatic ending with map not revealed like I expected it would be (not even after my friend left the game).

Probably we won't play again so this was likely it with ciV for me unless some godly mods turn out one day. I hope the new Combat Mission comes soon.

 

[swordspider]

Probably we won't play again so this was likely it with ciV for me unless some godly mods turn out one day. I hope the new Combat Mission comes soon.

Sorry you didn't have a very good experience there man. You have to like the game first before you can really enjoy multiplayer.

 

[Smote]

Turned out that through the game we were mostly involved with fending of the massive amounts of barbarian armies. I should have built more units in the start to destroy the camps as soon as they popped up, it was frustrating to be on the defense. Luckily my opponent was equally busy and struggling with more poor start locations, too.

Yeah, I would definitely advise an extra warrior or two around turn 20-25 to finish off barbarians. It really pays off not having to constantly dodge barbarians with your workers and having the occasional improvement pillaged. It also frees up a unit or 2 for worker steals or player harasses.

If you want to try to get a big advantage vs barbarian, really focus on finding that first barb camp at turn 7 or before. Then you can get 2 attacks in before a new barbarian brute spawns on turn 11.

Barbarians in camps re-fortify every 2 turns. If you attack them when they are at +25%, you will have an easier time than when they are at +50%. I would advise attack at +25%, fortify and heal a turn while they +50%, then attack again at +25%.

If this 3 turns of attacking can be done turn 10 or earlier, you do not have to worry about barbarian reinforcements. Scouts can also help for an additional attack/flanking if there is one in the area.

Another thing you can do about barbarian camps near the sea or mountains which is sometimes applicable is block every spawn location next to the barbarian camp. The barbarian reinforcements will have no tile to spawn on and entirely not spawn. This does not apply once the barbarians get boats, in the case of sea tiles, as a barbarian boat will spawn.

This might also be a good way for Ottomans to generate boats.


Lastly, funny story from a duel raging barb game: I was against Germany, and strangly enough there was a barb camp in the 1 tile wide mountain pass between us, with 2 tiles attack locations for him and 2 tiles for me, then blocked by mountains. I immediately saw this as a useful "barbarian generator" and blocked my two tiles with a warrior and scout-archer.
M=Mountain
H=Hill
E=Encampment

. M H .
.H E H.
. H M .

All the barbarians then spawned on his side, and proceeded to attack him, much to my amusement.

Furthermore, I shot any german units that tried to take out the encampment with my archer . He proceeded to leave the game [forfeit] about 20 turns later, once i pillaged all his squares with a horseman.