Best use for Warlord?

[bobsteve]

What have you guys found to be the best use for the warlord? Unit, greatperson in city or build acadmey? Im a bit curious since although I have the expansion, I havent been able to play long enough to get my first warlord yet. (Wife got in the way)

 

[Samson]

I have been wondering this as well. It looks to me like the 25% on building units and the extra 2 exp. will be much better than the 20 exp. on 1 stack until the late game. When you have a big stack of units the medic III could well be worth it on its own.

 

[Wodan]

I used my first one to get the +2xp, and then the war ended soon thereafter. As I built up for my next war, I was wishing I had used him to build a Military Academy (+25% military production). So, lesson learned.

(Not that the 2xp was useless... far from it. My uber Berserkers really kicked butt.)

As for the 20xp usage... I'm thinking myself that the bigger benefit is the free upgrades. You get a really nice elite unit, now that guy isn't nerfed and will get better and better for the whole game. Frankly, I think this might be even better than the Military Academy.

By the way, I was curious if the +2xp version (which joins him as a super specialist) causes him to eat food, to which I found the answer is NO. Good news.

Wodan

 

[MisterBarca]

I used my first one to get the +2xp, and then the war ended soon thereafter. As I built up for my next war, I was wishing I had used him to build a Military Academy (+25% military production). So, lesson learned.

(Not that the 2xp was useless... far from it. My uber Berserkers really kicked butt.)

As for the 20xp usage... I'm thinking myself that the bigger benefit is the free upgrades. You get a really nice elite unit, now that guy isn't nerfed and will get better and better for the whole game. Frankly, I think this might be even better than the Military Academy.

By the way, I was curious if the +2xp version (which joins him as a super specialist) causes him to eat food, to which I found the answer is NO. Good news.

Wodan

Isn't a 25 percent production bonus rather paltry? I don't ever intend to build a Military Academy, given how precious Great Generals are.

But I am open to counter-arguments.

 

[drkodos]

I've been making them Warlords. Seems like a good thematic use, and very powerful, giving the xp, and unlocking those other promotions.

In fact, in the first games I've palyed I have felt it is even a bit overpowered.


Then again, it is WARLORDS.

 

[Samson]

Isn't a 25 percent production bonus rather paltry? I don't ever intend to build a Military Academy, given how precious Great Generals are.

But I am open to counter-arguments.

The way I look at it is;

How many units can your best city build in X time?
What is the value of the 20 exp. points?
How much difference does X time make?

For example, if you have a city producing 20 hammers per turn, and it will be 100 turns before the heroic epic. The Military Academy will give you 500 hammers in this time. That is 11 axemen. Is 11 axemen over the next 100 turns worth 20 EP now? If you are not at war at the moment, probably not.

Equally, the city is likely to make around 50 axemen in this time. To add as the +2 EP (Millatry advisor?) that is a total of 100 EP, and since the first promotions are cheaper than the later ones, this is probably better.

I guess this is a quite extreme example, but this is the sort of thing I have been thinking an I think if you have a decent millatry production city it will be better to add them to a city than a unit. Remember if you make use of your uit for battle he is likely to die at some point. Esp. on the higher levels where you are frequently attacking more advanced units.

 

[Wodan]

I agree with Samson. And yes, extreme examples are the best way to illustrate a point.

The whole question was where best to use your military leaders. IMO, your first one needs to be a Military Academy in the city that you plan to build Heroic Epic, etc. Part of the reason for that is that you get the production bonus for longer.

Your second great general should be considered for the attachment option (never your first).

For 25% being "paltry"... that reminds me of the people complaining that Redcoats are now only 25% vs gunpowder. Nevermind that 25% of 16 brings them up to Infantry status (Str 20), and that's their base level. Plus, that all your opponents are going to be going gung-ho with Grenadiers and Riflemen... your Redcoats are going to eat their lunch.

...sorry for being off topic and for getting on a soapbox.

Wodan

 

[Gherald]

If you get a very early great general (probably as Cyrus or Ghengis) then an academy will be worthwhile. But otherwise, specialists in what is or will become your heroic epic city are the obvious choice.

Warlord units will be fun for noobs on lower difficulty levels, but kind of pointless on Monarch and higher.

 

[dh_epic]

I think it might depend on your longer term strategy. If you want to use it to help you end your war quickly, you might want to use the quick XP boost. If you want to regroup and fight a war later, settling them in a city might be better for the long term.

 

[drkodos]

Warlord units will be fun for noobs on lower difficulty levels, but kind of pointless on Monarch and higher.

Hehehe.

I just used all three Great Generals I had as Warlords and they became a major factor in a domination victory on Monarch. Fractal, 7 Opponents, Normal Speed.

I guess that makes me a n00b and now that I read your post I suppose I didn't have as much fun as I thought I did.



Wednesday's Word of the Day: Dogmatism.

 

[Gherald]

Hehehe.

I just used all three Great Generals I had as Warlords and they became a major factor in a domination victory on Monarch. Fractal, 7 Opponents, Normal Speed.

I guess that makes me a n00b and now that I read your post I suppose I didn't have as much fun as I thought I did.

Wednesday's Word of the Day: Dogmatism.

Please explain how they were a major factor, because I just don't see it happening.

You can call me dogmatic all you like, I'm just doing the math.

 

[Murky]

Hehehe.

I just used all three Great Generals I had as Warlords and they became a major factor in a domination victory on Monarch. Fractal, 7 Opponents, Normal Speed.

I guess that makes me a n00b and now that I read your post I suppose I didn't have as much fun as I thought I did.



Wednesday's Word of the Day: Dogmatism.

I could see this happening.

 

[MisterBarca]

Please explain how they were a major factor, because I just don't see it happening.

You can call me dogmatic all you like, I'm just doing the math.

If you have the Imperialistic trait and/or the Great Wall built and therefore can really crank out a lot of Great Generals, I can see them being major factors even at a higher difficulty maps. I don't consider Monarch that difficult, but I can certainly see it happening at Monarch. Having 5-6 Warlord units on the field and a good core of supporting units boosted by the 100-120 extra XP would make a difference.

 

[Armorydave]

Warlord units will be fun for noobs on lower difficulty levels, but kind of pointless on Monarch and higher.

Exactly the opposite seems true to me. I find combat success far more critical to success at Monarch and above than at Prince or below (unless you want to go for culture victories every game). Given that fact, attached Warlords should be disproportionately valuable at those levels. Having a unit that will pretty much always take out the first unit in a city stack is huge if you play a conquest focused game.

 

[Araqiel]

I fail to see how anyone has done much mathematically analysis in this thread.

 

[snipafist]

If I get my great general early enough, I often go for the +2XP attachment to the city I'll be building my heroic epic in. If I can build the heroic epic once I get him, I often attach him to a unit so that I can bring a unit up to the XP prerequisite for building the heroic epic, and later, west point.

 

[Betafor]

Quick summary -

There are three ways you could use a warlord to its max potential

1. Making a unit a warlord on a stack of 10 recently built from a barracks units. This brings all of the 3XP from barracks to 5(another promo) in all 10 units. This is best if you receive a GG while massing units for an attack, because once the units you want to give the xtra XP to are past XP 3, you are not getting the most promos for your XP gained. The second best way to make a warlord is to distribute the 20xp thru 4 5XP units, getting 4 free promotions, which, is not as good as above, so see below if your units are already promoted when you receive GG

2.Join a city as a military advisor(+2 XP for further units built in city). This is best when the majority of your armies are already promoted, because joining as a warlord would give you inoppertune promotions for the XP(see above). and so what you are doing here is letting each new unit you make in that city have 2 promotions stock(assuming barracks and no other XP bonus) for the rest of the game. great synergy with heroic epic. This is a good move during that time because you are trying to get the most promotions possible for your GG, and if you dont have a stack about to invade someone, it is better to simply give the +2 XP to further units, which you will probably make more than 10 of (see above)

3.(IMHO the last thing you should do w/ GG) Create an acadamy(+25 percent production of units). Why do i say this is the last thing you should do? NOT because its the worst thing you can do, but because its benifits come later. Its benifits come when you have more than one main unit pumping city. Your first, of course, will have the heroic epic, so an additional 25 percent is overkill. I say this is the last thing you should do because ussually you receive a GG WAY before you have the empire size to have 2 pure unit producing cities. Synergy = NOT having the ironworks in your second unit pumping city, so you can have an ironworks-powered wonder building city, and not waste it on units.

Not a lot of math, aragiel... but some logic. Forgive me?


2.

 

[drkodos]

Having a unit that will pretty much always take out the first unit in a city stack is huge if you play a conquest focused game.

Bingo.

Give that man a Kewpie doll.



Whatever the "math" might indicate long term was not as important as the actual impact they had short term when their use was instrumental in taking out the opponents Capital City, and then getting Capitulation in order to sign a Peace Treaty.

Like all things CIV, I think a person's strategy in combo with what is happening on any given turn could indicate different uses in different scenarios at different times.


I think anytime a game component becomes as cut & dried as the one poster argues, it is indicative, or even full admission, that the game is not that good or complex because it can be "solved" so easily.

It is similar to the debate over Knights vs Bishops in Chess. Sometimes one is better, sometimes the other is. So much depends on terrain, an individual's playing style, and their comfort & skills with each unit. Two good Knights can dominate even superior pieces such as two rooks in closed position, let alone the Bishop pair.


Just sayin.

 

[Araqiel]

Who is this Aragiel, for his name angers and confuses me!



I think you covered most of it with your excellent analysis. However there is one I would add to it. A variation on the impulsive merging with a smaller stack to help create a few powerful units along with your general.

I'd probably only do it to access medic III if I were playing for maximum effect rather than experimenting. Medic III seems to me the most valuable of the special promotions. Nor would it be hard to setup as you can get medic I on a unit with just one battle and then figure out how much xp the GG will need to get two promotions. Stack the appropriate number of units with him.

The extra healing might be worth it for you second or third one. Especially since by this point your armies will have grown in numerical size.

 

[NaZdReG]

I guess the value of a general depends on if you are playing single player or multi player. in SP wars come far less frequently. in MP, wars are commonplace and hectic fought with huge stacks of units. let me sum it up from my own thread in the strategy & tips section

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=178764

using the general to produce the military academy results in a production magnification that can also be combined with whipping (like we all do in MP)

more production % = more units = more war = more exp = more generals = more production % = more units = more war = more exp... well you get the idea.

if you have the charismatic trait then all of your units get that promotion from the barracks (4 to promo but they all promote at 25% less so 3 still works) and I drop the generals into multiple production cities, resulting in a huge boost to overall army size. midgame switch to beurocracy and your capitol has +75% military production, your heroic epic is at 125-150% and any further generals you can distribute across your empire or start stacking them in the city with the epic so your late game all of your units are getting 7-11 extra exp (not including civics) just from spawning out of your barracks

warmongers were given a weapon go smash things with.. gotta love it

NaZ