Best way to start for a youngster? (C3C)

[Abraham 1313]

Well. I am new to Civ3. I have played CivRev on the 360. I quickly learned that this is MUCH more involved. So I found this thread and was hoping for advise for me...because I am playing at less then a 6 year old child's ability. I just played the #3 tutorial for the 3rd time on chieftain and easy AI. I get my game handed to me every time. Is there a better thread that I should be looking into? Three minutes into the game and I have 10 enemies inside my border. What happens on the hard AI? Sheesh! Any help is thanked.

 

[Aabraxan]

Welcome to CFC, Abraham 1313!

First, there's the War Academy, where you'll find some really great articles. I suggest you go looking for "Cracker's Opening Plays." That's a good place to start.

Then you might head down to the Succession Games section. There have been lots of Training Day Games and I just recently put together an archive of them. There's lots of discussion of the hows and whys of the game in those. Also, vmxa recently put together a tutorial for struggling Regent players. If you can find one of his posts (which shouldn't be hard), I think he's got it linked in his signature. If not, it's in the Strategy Articles section (I think).

You say that the game is "handed to you." What exactly is going wrong? Is the AI outrunning you in tech? Outgunning you? Also, what victory condition are you shooting for? I suggest that you decide that early on, because your chosen victory condition plays a big role in other decisions down the road.

Here are some of the common new player mistakes:

• Too few workers, too late
• Building lots of unnecessary structures
• Ineffective trading
• Too few roads

There's lots to learn in C3C. The easiest way to get good advice is to post a save. That will let some of the resident experts get a good look at what's going on in your game.

 

[CommandoBob]

Glad to see you, Abraham 1313.



Besides what Aabraxan said, check your game Preferences (Control + P). Make sure you have checked (turned blue) 'Wait at end of turn'. This will give you a chance to examine your world before you continue. Otherwise, the game will flow too fast. Remember, this is a Turn-Based Strategy game, not a Real-Time Strategy game.

I'm not sure what you mean by the #3 Tutorial. Sorry.

Also, what version of Civ 3 are you playing? There were three versions of Civ 3; the initial release (referred to as vanilla), Play The World (PTW) and Conquests. Each one added new things and new civs. Scandanavia was added in PTW and Sumeria in Conquests.

There was also something called Civ 3 Complete (C3C), which is a 3 disk set, one install of all three versions, fully patched up. Most of us here have that. It plays the same as the others (though it does default to the Conquests version) and is just easier to maintain. It can be found in stores for about $20 and online even cheaper.

Vanilla was fully patched at verson 1.29f.
PTW at 1.27 something.
Conquests at 1.22.

With C3C, this is all done for you, which is nice.

Posting a save is good way to get help. When you do, include things like Difficulty level, map size, land type and number of opponents. These four things make a big impact on your game. Also, if you adjusted the Aggresiveness level any. Things like age, humidity and such, while important, have more subtle impacts than what you describe.

It sounds like you might be playing on a Tiny map and have Aztecs as your neighbour. But I could be very wrong.

And yes, there is a lot to learn, but it can be done.

 

[Abraham 1313]

Thanks for the info in such a quick time frame.
Well when the bad guys come in my workers run away...that's a good thing.
I seem to have a very hard time killing the bad guys on this "easy" level.
You start this level with 4 mid-evil cities. How many workers would you suggest per city?

As for the youngster question. Civ Rev on the 360 is a great learning exp. for this game type. My 8 year old watched me play. Now he enjoys the building.

 

[Abraham 1313]

CommandoBob
I bought the Complete game. Under Conquests there are 3 tutorials. Unfortunately they are the only tutorial I have found in the game.
I have not found a save option yet either.

 

[CommandoBob]

Once you're in a game, there are three icons in the upper left corner of the screen, a triangle, a square and a circle. The triangle takes you to some menu options, like save a game, load a game, etc. The square is the civilopedia and the round brings up your advisors.

Control + S will let you save at any time.

EDIT:
I don't see any tutorials in mine, at least not from the C3C start screen. A button for the Conquests (scenarios) yes, but nothing for tutorials.

It doesn't really matter. If you can save it, we can look at it and help you. But be sure to post a manual save, not an auto-save by the game. The manual save will be compressed and much smaller than the auto-save.

 

[Spoonwood]

Abraham,

I don't know of any tutorials, but I do know they included some special scenarios called Conquests in C3C. Do you mean to refer to one of these? Could you please post a save?

 

[Abraham 1313]

Spoonwood,

Yes to your first question...the 3rd tutorial. Sorry I just checked. "Intro3 New Alliances" is the scenario. How do I post a save. I assume I will need to save the game and then copy and paste the save file?

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . How do I post a save. I assume I will need to save the game and then copy and paste the save file?

Yes, you'll need to save the game, then upload the save to CFC. (I suggest that you start your own thread for that.) When you go to type in the post, scroll down. You'll see a button that says "Manage Attachments." Click that and it'll bring up a box for uploading the save.

Difficulty level has no effect on combat odds. IOW, a swordsman vs. a spear has exactly the same odds of winning at Deity level as he does at Chieftain. The difference is that at Deity, your swordsman is likely to face a lot more spears. With that said, I don't know if the scenarios/tutorials that you've played work quite the same way as the standard game.

Also, if your workers are running away . . . do you have them automated? I know that's the easy way to handle them, but good worker management goes a long way to making the game easier. For now, just remember: (1) Mine green; (2) irrigate brown & food bonuses; and (3) put roads everywhere. Oh, and try to get 2 workers per city. You can get by with fewer if you're playing an industrious civ, but that's a decent rule of thumb.

 

[CommandoBob]

Spoonwood,

Yes to your first question...the 3rd tutorial. Sorry I just checked. "Intro3 New Alliances" is the scenario. How do I post a save. I assume I will need to save the game and then copy and paste the save file?

Saves can be uploaded as attachments. The mechanism is beneath the text box you use to enter a normal post (not a quick post). There is a button labeled Manage Attachments. Click on it to get started.

Intro3 New Alliances
Eeh, that is not a tutorial; it is a scenario and it will not teach you anything. I just began one. Start at 770 AD, random civ as Portugal, tiny map, four civs total, four cities, three of them buiilding Wonders, accelerated production. Control + Alt + Delete; no way I'm playing in that mess, even at Chieftain.

 

[CommandoBob]

Do This Instead
Follow my lead this time and start a new game. Use the following screenshots for your setup. Once you get past the intro screen, go ahead and save the game, even before you move your first unit. Give the save game a good name; be sure to included the year in the name, too. That just makes tracking your games easier when you can identify the years. You can follow this pattern, "MyGameAsThisCiv_4000_BC.sav' or create your own.

You can save the game (manually) at any time and still continue to play. But you already knew this.


Setup: First Screen

Spoiler :

Setup: Second Screen

Spoiler :

 

[CommandoBob]

I've only got a few minutes before they shut the site down for maintenance, so this may be brief.

In the first setup screen you selected your landmass and map size. We went with Standard size and continents and 60% water. That is fairly earth like. You'll have neighborts, but they won't be too close. Not like what you saw eariler. Plus, everyone is starting at 4000 BC with about the same units.

In the second setup screen I suggested you allow the game to select your civ. That is how I do a lot of my games, but if you have a favorite feel free to select it. I let the game select the opponents, too, just to make life interesting.

We selected all the standard victory conditions. Nothing too unusual in that. It gives you a choice of ways to win.

Note that Culturally Linked Starts is not selected. What this will do is force the civs around you to be the same each time you play. You select Rome; your neighbors will be Carthage, Egypt and Greece. Interesting once, but not twice.

Also turned off is Accelerated Production. Not a good thing to have on.

Cultural Conversions can be nice (cities can flip to you and away from you).

Scientific Leaders can rush Great Wonders (Military Great Leaders can anything except Great Wonders).

EDIT:
Victory Conditions
In most SGs here all of these victory conditions are turned on. For a Hall of Fame game submission, these must be turned on, regardless of which victory condition you are aimiing for. Believe it or not, this does keep the game 'fair', since you are now forced to keep the AI from winning as you try to win. And it is not a hard as it seems.

The Wonder victory is hardly ever used; I don't understand it.

Culturally Linked Starting positions I've already mentioned.

Respawn AI Players we turned off here. The way this works is that if you kill off an AI early enough it can reenter the game, if enough unclaimed space exists.

Preserve Random Seed means that whatever and however the game determines the random number, it stays the same when you save the game. In turn, when this is turned on, you cannot reload a game to replay an event and get a better result. If, at the start of your turn, you lose your elite Tank to a regular Spear (yes, it happens!) you will not be able to reload the prior save of the game, redo the attack and get a different result. Most SGs are played with this turned on. In your own games, it is up to you.

Accelerated Production, which I haven't used, speeds up how fast your cities produce things. It works for you and the AI, too. It is not used much here.

Elimination, Regicide, Mass Regicide, Victory Point Scoring, Capture the Princess and Reverse Capture the Flag are for human vs human vs human games, not solo games or SGs.

Allow Cultural Conversion means that sometimes a city will decide to flip to your civ because of how culturally advanced your people are. Sometimes one of your cities will flip to the bad guys too. Flipping doesn't happen often but it can. Most often it occurs when you capture a large city that is close to its former capital. Things that influence flipping are the culture levels of the civs involved, how far it is to their capitals, how many units are in the city and the population mix (yours vs theirs) in the city in question.

Allow Scientific Leaders means that an SGL (Scientific Great Leader) can appear in your capital if you are the first one to learn a new tech. SCIentific civs have a better chance at these guys than others civs. Only an SGL can rush a Great Wonder (in C3C). In vanilla and PTW, SGLs and MGLs can rush Great Wonders. That is what makes them so valuable in C3C, their rarity and their effects.

AI Aggression
When set to Most Aggressive, even India will be looking to kick your butt with their military, instead of just being a pest with their city placement. At 'Normal' is considered Normal.

 

[CKS]

Note that "Culturally Linked Start Loc." is broken, and if you select it you will always get the American group of opponents (Inca, Maya, etc.), regardless of who you are. If that is who you want to play against, it is better to select them individually.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

Well Abe, are you overwhelmed yet? You're at the beginning of a long learning curve, I relate it to learning how to snow ski, hated it the first day, to many crashes and impatient instructors, loved it the second day, fewer crashes and no instructors, enjoyed every ski day since from snow plowing a bunny hill to doing the black diamond mogul run. My only recommendation is start a New Game with a Medium or Large Map and 3 or 4 opponents. The larger the map and fewer the opponents the less likely you are to run into them early on. This gives you time to establish your first few cities before running into AI civs. The barbarians will keep you on your toes militarily, when you get bored with them increase the number of opponents with later games.

 

[GeneralMeng]

im envious of you guys, i been trying to get my little brother to play civ with me for ages, but he never does.... he prefers rts (warcraft)

 

[madviking]

As someone who personally started playing vanilla Civ3 at about 10 (9? Soooo long ago...), I would really endorse it. I learned a lot about history and strategy in general. It'll definite help you learn about history and how civilization has progressed since 4000BC. It's not like GTA, it's (I hate to say it) an educational game really. If I hadn't watched my dad play Civ2: ToT, I probably would not like history so much.