1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Beyond Earth game mechanisms : Health

Discussion in 'CivBE - Strategy & Tips' started by Lord Yanaek, Dec 2, 2014.

  1. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,438
    Maybe someone should start a new thread about how to maximize research speed.
    Won't be me. I'm not bad at digging into the database for numbers but i'm bad at projecting BPT for new cities over multiple turns.
     
  2. sprang

    sprang Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    197
    I think all the theorycraft just went out the window with the patch. 20bpt for a spammed city is looking a little high...
     
  3. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,438
    Yep. Time to start over.
    Speaking of patch :
    Health effects balancing:
    • From -20 to -70, Production is penalized -1% per point (up to -50%).
    • From -15 to -65, enemy Covert Ops Intrigue is increased +2% per point (up to +100%).
    • From -10 to -60, Science is penalized -1% per point (up to -50%).
    • From -5 to -55, Culture is penalized -1% per point (up to -50%).
    • From 0 to -50, Outpost Growth is penalized -2% per point (up to -100%).
    • From 0 to -50, City Growth is penalized -2% per point (up to -100%).
    • From 1 to 5, nothing happens.
    • From 5 to 25, Production bonus +1% per point (up to +20%).
    • From 10 to 30, enemy Covert Ops Intrigue is decreased -2% per point (up to -40%).
    • From 15 to 35, Science bonus +1% per point (up to +20%).
    • From 20 to 40, Culture bonus +1 per point (up to +20%).
    • From 25 to 45, City Growth bonus +1% per point (up to +20%).
    • From 25 to 45, Outpost Growth bonus +2% per point (up to +40%).
    And Eudaimonia is now 15% less negatvie health.

    Will revise main posts for this later and check no other undocumented changes were done.
     
  4. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,247
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ontario
    Considering the large number of modifiers and overlapping ranges of effect if might be good to have a chart to show it all. Which I might make if no one else does it.
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,308
    other changes
    no health from Artists/Aristocrats
    No trade route from Autoplants (less health from Industry)
     
  6. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,438
    Is it something like this you have in mind?
     
  7. rredding

    rredding Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    This thread is nicely done. Yeah definitely some nerfs to health generation but some nice perks for folks who spend the time to buff health up.

    Again thanks for the write up. :cheers:
     
  8. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,247
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ontario
    Somewhat. I was thinking more bar graphy. Health on the Y (high at the top), affected areas on the X, and bars with colours fading from light to dark to show when they start as mild penalties and when they get to their maximum.
    However I didn't think a program would do that automatically so it seemed like I'd have to draw it manually which seemed like a lot of work.
     
  9. Packherd2

    Packherd2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    It seems to me that the effect is 0.5 health per unit, not route. Furthermore, it seems that there is no limit on the number of trade units you can control. That is, you may build/purchase a new convoy even if you've maxed out all your trade route slots.

    Does this mean profiteering effectively grants infinite health? Please correct me if I'm missing something...
     
  10. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,247
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ontario
    I checked and yes. It's very eff'd up.
     
  11. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,621
    Location:
    Missouri
    That would be significant change from BNW, where you weren't allowed to build new trade units if you didn't have routes available.
    I'm predicting a future patch will disallow building/purchasing new convoys when you have maxed out all trade routes for your current max number of slots.
     
  12. sprang

    sprang Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    197
    Yup. You can build your way to health. Convoys are 60 each, don't cost Maint and don't count against the Unit Supply limits. So that's 120p per Health Point.

    Compare, though:
    Gene Gardens are 200p for 3H
    Optical Surgery are 370p for 4H, +1H/Silica
    Soma Distilleries are 400p for +4H, +10%.

    Those are each in the roughly 75p/Health cost range. Plus, to get this Virtue, you took +10% & +25% for buildings, so the real cost per point of health is closer to 50p/health.

    The Resurrection Device, at +8H for 1350p, looks to be substantially worse, at over 150p/health, but +15% Wonders, and then Crawler or PAC's bonus will get this down closer to 100p/health, still cheaper than trade units.

    To be sure, the Trade Unit health is global health, but it is still reallllly expensive. The only cost reduction is in "Liquidity" for a 20% discount on energy prices. Which is something, but you're still paying over 400E per health.


    ==
    ETA: Question: does the Repair Bay affect Convoy prices? That might save another 10% "Land Units" is the important language. The other unit discounts all say "Military" units.
     
  13. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,247
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ontario
    Buildings are all limited to one per city, wonders one per world.Trade units are unlimited. The difference between 120p and 50p is substantial, but the difference between one and infinity is the key detail.
     
  14. Packherd2

    Packherd2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    That's my hang up, too.
     
  15. CivScientist

    CivScientist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    125
    It's not really infinity, though. You're limited by the production of your cities. You're also limited by the opportunity costs of not building something else like, say, a settler or a marine with that production. I guess the real question is, how much in terms of units and buildings are you willing to give up to get a large, dense empire at +1 health? How much would you actually have to give up?
     
  16. omniclast

    omniclast Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    475
    This is amazing. lmao
     
  17. Xenotitan

    Xenotitan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    401
  18. sprang

    sprang Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    197
    Or you could use the "Development" options - food, culture, etc. I think that's the most obvious trade-off. Given the % bonuses from health, choosing to build trade units instead of "Science @ 25%" might be worth it.

    It's also true that just because trade units are a worse deal than everything else doesn't mean they're not still useful if it's all you have left. Sometimes, you just need more health, regardless of the cost. Especially, global health.

    Trade unit health spam also lets you solve health problems in cities where you can't build lots of biowells - e.g., islands, or cities with lots of resources/mountains/lakes.

    If anything, this makes TR Health Spam more powerful compared to some of the other virtues, like Community Medicine or Magnasanti. 2 units per Health is much easier to min/max than 5 buildings or 6 pop.
     
  19. Xenotitan

    Xenotitan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    401
    Personally I don't use the trade unit health spam because I consider it an exploit.
     
  20. appleguard

    appleguard Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2
    I've been trying to get a grip on the new rules for Promethean. I know it negates the automatic -4 penalty generated by that city, and I think it disables the city's population-based health penalty, but can I also carpet the ground with Manufactories without reducing that city's health level? The minimal testing I've done seems to indicate as such, but before I start wildly warping my Wonder strategies I want to check on this.

    EDIT: Actually I think I was wrong about the -4 penalty, because that's still there. Seems more than a little confusing to me.
     

Share This Page

Ebates: Get Paid to Shop