Bindy's Road to EQM -- Round 2

Bindamel

Call me Bindy - mel
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Welcome back!

As I mentioned in this thread, I have devised a plan to achieve all the requirements for four of the six legs of the Elite Quattromaster Challenge.

I will try to post a thread around every two weeks with the game conditions, and then some highlights of my game, and encourage others to do the same. I also open the floor to discussions of strategy, as the regular HoF'ers never cease to amaze me with their insight into the game.

Round 2: All New!

What could be the opposite of classic? How about a game with a leader and map that I've never played, with a victory condition I have not yet achieved? That's round 2, a BTS-only romp through the jungles and deserts of the RainForest Map as Suryavarman of the Khmer, attempting to clear enough space to build a launchpad to the stars!

"Required" Settings:
Expansion: BTS
Era: Ancient
Civilization: Khmer
Victory Condition: Space Colony
Game Speed: Epic
Map: Rainforest (Note: Only Flat Rainforest Maps are eligible for submission.)
(Hey, I just noticed I had Civilization listed here twice in Round 1!)

As I mentioned in the opening thread, I will be playing at Monarch. (but I sure wouldn't mind seeing someone trying the game conditions at higher levels!) I am going to try a standard map, which is probably a little better for Space victory, but mostly because which maps are going to be acceptable for EQM are still up in the air:

Here again are the opponent requirements for various map sizes.
Code:
Mapsize    Minimum     Maximum   
  Tiny         2          4  
 Small         4          7  
Standard       6         10  
 Large         8         14    
  Huge        10         17
Remember, Duel Maps are definitely ineligible for the Elite Quattromaster Challenge.

Since creating the game for this challenge, I've fiddled a bit with both map and leader. Food is king in the rainforest, but it's not very diverse. You will see lots of rice and bananas and pigs, but little or no wheat, corn, sheep, cows, or seafood of any kind. In my brief experiments, four resources in the fat cross was not uncommon. Gold is common in the deserts, and gems in the jungle, but maps seem to have little or no silver (but when they do, it's on grassland hills!). Production is at a premium, as what hills there are tend to be concentrated around clusters of impassable peaks. With all the jungle, Iron Working becomes just as important as in round 1, but for a very different reason.

Suryavarman is Creative, which makes bypassing early religion easier, and Expansive, which is wonderful in this high food, low diversity environment. His UB is an aqueduct that supplies an extra :food:, so getting size 20 cities is trivial. His UU is the Ballista Elephant; anyone who can find significant use for a UU whose benefit involves fighting outside cities gets a cookie ;)



See you on Alpha Centauri!

Results:

shyuhe Immortal 1861 A.D.
Bindamel Monarch Jan. 1951
Paradigm Shifter Monarch Jul. 1968
bestje Prince Jul. 1955
hecubus Noble Jan. 1983
Ozbenno Monarch 1926

Latecomer:
ruff_hi Monarch 1930 A.D.
 
D'oh, I forgot to go for a new map type in my first BtS game! Will give this a try.

EDIT: Low production space race victory? Bring it on! I'll probably stay back down at Monarch unless I pwnnihilate the AI on my first go.
 
Serfdom may be surprisingly useful on Rainforest maps. There's a LOT of jungle to clear and there's a fair amount of desert (FP) tiles as well. Both take lots of worker turns to improve so serfdom during the midgame may be more useful than slavery :eek: However, caste system may be useful mid-late game for workshops (after guilds/chemistry I imagine).

I haven't played a Khmer game so I will give this a run. I'm thinking immortal but we'll see how it goes. It looks like I may have to go through the guilds --> gunpowder --> chemistry route earlier than normal.
 
Well I got my vanilla EQM last update, so this update is focused towards BtS QM. I have 7 leaders and 4 maps (and AP) to go. Funnily enough both Khmer and rainforest appear on my list.

If you assume standard map size, these are the only dates in the HoF:

Prince 2047AD
Noble 1941AD
Warlord 1887AD

That prince game seems familiar...
In my defence thats on a boreal map and from a future start.
I was trying to fill those ROA requirements
guess i'd better try to defend my number 1 slot ;)
 
I hope to join in on this one as well...Monarch is where I'll attempt to compete, since I'm hoping to be a monarch EQM...so if I can beat Bindamel, I might get a #1 slot ;)

@C63: Glad you finally got BtS, how'd you manage it?
 
A friend of mine visited the US and bought me a copy there. :) While we're off-topic, how can one use the "view demographics" option granted by the passive espionage menu? Is it any different from the old vanilla demographics screen?
 
Very interesting setup!

Maybe this will be my first immortal space race...first serious try looks good so far:
- raging barbs, 6 non-aggressive non-industrial rivals
- capital on copper plains hill with deer, rice, silk & marble around
- early Great Wall and MC slingshot
- second city hooked up stone, third in between, pyramids in capital with only 2 chops
- 4th city taken from barbs, containing some incredible 7 resources; able to run 4 cities @50% science + 6 scientists (after currency)
- traded MC for Monarchy and Alphabet first, and then actually for everything else
- lost Music & Theology to Gandhi, but everyone else is on par or even behind me in techs...just got Great Library(GE) in early AD

Hagia Sophia should be the next goal to clear those jungles; Gandhi's still the only one able to build it, but Hannibal seems to prepare a frontal assault on him...that is, if he doesn't pick me first...
Anyway, this really looks beatable, provided none of my friends (all 6 are pleased) stabs me in the back before I do :D
 
nope...if you don't have that amount of espionage points invested in a civ, you can't see any of the old vanilla demographics at all.
 
Well I finished my first BtS game, so I'll probably try this game next.

Met Justinian (he was annoyed with me all game, but didn't do anything) and Zara (he decided to make things exciting by invading me at the end, unfortunately he landed on the wrong side of the island, away from my cultural cities). I got peace for a city after he took 2 of mine, he could have easily wiped me out (riflemen and cannons vs. muskets, knights and longbows).

Cultural win with Hatty 1832, tied for date with the current #1 in the monarch/standard size/normal speed/cultural table, but I got more points!!! So my first game with BtS could be a table topper!!!

I'll probably stick with Monarch level to get my head around the new map and the new space race in BtS.
 
I started a game but I think I'm going to have to restart. I was boxed in by jungle and it really hurt my development. I think I need to restart until I get a position where I can settle 3-4 cities without needing IW. If you have to start chopping jungle too early, you fall behind a lot :(
 
Right, this will be my game for the day (probably take me more than a day at the speed I play, and epic).

Going for standard map, monarch difficulty.

I have only won space race games (in warlords) with financial or philosophical civs before, so this should be a challenge. Also not much idea about espionage and the new units.

I think the elephants will shine defending your patch from pillagers. An axe/elephant combo sounds good.

Withdrawal elephants are good for softening up longbows as well, if there are no pikes or spears in the city. I normally hit the top longbow with an elephant before suiciding the seige weapons. Your seige is more likely to win if they don't face the most promoted longbow from the off.

EDIT: Note to self, remember to check epic speed if want to get my epic game win for QM. Map looks interesting, lots of food. I didn't see any jumbos though, hope the epic start is better. Focus on early REX and growth seems like a plan. Once I have enough workers to clear jungle there will be some prime cottageable land. I think India is most suited to this kind of map.

In my first BtS game, DaveMcW would have been proud of me. In my cottage culture city (others were GA farm, and the capital = wonder spammer), I built cottages on 3 grassland hills, and cottaged over grassland pigs ;)

EDIT2: Remember, cylindrical (and toroidal doughnut world) are not allowed for this map type for HOF submissions. I was stuck in the NW corner as well in my normal speed map, not great but at least you can go light on inland defences.
 
Remember, cylindrical (and toroidal doughnut world) are not allowed for this map type for HOF submissions. I was stuck in the NW corner as well in my normal speed map, not great but at least you can go light on inland defences.

Good point, I had meant to mention that in the original post. I'll edit that in now.

When I did my initial experiments, I was using small maps with four opponents. Every one I played had one civ in each corner, and one in the center of either the north or south edge.
 
Is it just me or is city maintenance a lot higher on this map than normal? The first time I played this map, I rexed outwards and completely crashed my economy before 1AD. Granted I had too many workers but I think this map is smaller than standard. That means maintenance is a pain...

I just launched my SS so 15 turns to go. I've stopped Gandhi's culture attempt as well but it's a pretty bad date. Looking like mid 1800's :( The lack of production on this map sucks and I got hemmed in pretty early as well.
 
I'm playing a standard map, so 6 opponents. Played up to 1020AD so far. A warlike bunch, Ragnar, Shaka, Pacal, Hamurabai, Gilgamesh and the odd one out, Gandhi.

There's a buddhist warmonger bloc, Pacal (holy city), Shaka, Ragnar and Gilgamesh. They all dogpiled Gandhi early on, but he has a lot of cities (traded for his map). I bribed Hammy to declare on Gilgo, then DoW'd on him myself. Taken 2 cities so far, he doesn't want peace yet, so I'm expecting a counter attack.

Ragnar was ahead in the liberalism race with paper and philo on me, but I bulbed Philo and now have education on him. I haven't got metal casting or machinery yet so I plan to get compass and bulb liberalism ;) So I'm at war in pacifism civic ;)

Built the Hanging Gardens, Parthenon, Great Lib and the Mausoleum (I'll definitely have a golden age or 2 later on since it's a space game).

Playing a super hybrid economy, there's so much food and grassland on the map I can have cottages on rivers and run specialists. I wish I had more workers though.

I plan to get to around 16-20 cities and then just tech up for space while maintaining a strong military. I'll try and just take out Gilgo I think, he was score leader when I DoW'd (I'm top of the tree now).

EDIT: I think production should be OK, there's so much grassland river tiles for workshops and watermills...

EDIT2: I think the map is about the same size as the vanilla/warlords Oasis map. So lots of land...

EDIT3: I'll be chuffed with a mid-1850s date, it's only my second go on BtS.

EDIT4: Just checked the bulb preferences, I'll need metal casting and compass (but not machinery) to bulb liberalism. It's trading time! Here's hoping Ragnar doesn't DoW with berserkers or I face macemen... Pyramids still not built in my game... but I'll probably just play it safe and take nationalism to get representation via constitution rather than build them this late.
 
Have got my first attempt in;
prince level, standard map with 6 opponents (monty, izzy, HC, Mehmed, Ragnar and Wang)
19xx date

monty declared on everyone at some point in the game and i got my first voluntary vassal (HC)
 
I'm at 1500AD in my game, 9 turns left of my 30 turn golden age ;) (Mausoleum + Great Artist GA burn + built Taj).

Nearly popped all the units from my "fill build queue with units 1 turn from completion and switch to vassalage/theocracy" gag. Gilgamesh doesn't know it but he is going to be destroyed pretty soon...

Massively ahead in tech now, I should have put off liberalism (took constitution), no-one else has even got education yet! I'm 1 turn away from chemistry, steel after that for IronWorks I think. Oxford has been built in my super science city (first game it hasn't been the capital! - my cap was low production, I moved the palace to my highest production city which is in a more central location).

Soon have my 20 cities thanks to Gilgamesh I think...

Gandhi (aka the "buffer zone") wanted to be my vassal voluntarily but Shaka, Pacal and Ragnar keep dogpiling him and he is way behind on tech so I don't think so buddy. You'd probably go for a cultural win then, I'm not daft.

In 2 minds as to whether or not to backstab Hammurabi after killing Gilgamesh. I think I'll leave Shaka, Pacal and Ragnar alone while building a defensive military.

EDIT: For some reason, jungles don't seem to give as much unhealthiness as normal on this map type... which is interesting.
 
what sort of economy are you running?
I had a go with a SE and out teched the AI by a fair margin, at the end i had tanks against either rifles or longbows.
Although possibly the way monty kept invading ppl entirely at random helped to slow the tech pace
 
Both sorts of economy ;) There's so much food on the map... I have cottages next to rivers and specialists as well.

Shaka has just declared on Hammurabi in my game (1600AD now). I don't know why, his territory is absolutely miles away. I've taken 3 cities off Gilgamesh by now.

Right, I captured the Apostolic Palace, but my state religion (Hinduism) is not present in the city. If I spread my state religion to the AP city, will it make it Hindu rather than Buddhist? All the Hindus are my pals, and all the Buddhists hate me. Shaka is the resident at the moment but hasn't put any votes up at all.

I'm not used to how long it takes to reduce defences with seige in BtS either. My spies keep getting caught alot as well...

Also near the founding corporations stage. Sid's Sushi is going to be useless, so if I want a food bonus corp I need cereal mills I guess. I heard mining inc is good as well (but careful not to spread it too much).
 
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