Biofuels - scientist that said it was worse than petrol?

[Abaddon]

I remeber some scientist claiming biodiesels cost more to the environment than petrol production.. any know who it was?

~BTW~

This isnt because i am in support or anything, im writing a dissertation on biofuels so letting you guys do some of the legwork

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

No, but if you find information on it post here. I want to read it. I hate the fact that most people think that a technology is better just because it is new.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I remeber some scientist claiming biodiesels cost more to the environment than petrol production.. any know who it was?

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2005/Biodiesel-Worse-Monbiot6dec05.htm

You can find more articles from other sources by typing:
biofuels worse for environment
into google.

 

[Abaddon]

In September, Friends of the Earth published a report about the impacts of palm oil production. “Between 1985 and 2000,” it found, “the development of oil-palm plantations was responsible for an estimated 87 per cent of deforestation in Malaysia”(8). In Sumatra and Borneo, some 4 million hectares of forest has been converted to palm farms. Now a further 6 million hectares is scheduled for clearance in Malaysia, and 16.5m in Indonesia

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Nothing new here. Using biofuel massively with current technology has the well known problem of needing very large amounts of productive land. However genetically engineered plants would make usable the huge desertic unproductive wastelands available around the world, even ocean water could be used to grow them.

 

[The Fjonis]

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2005/Biodiesel-Worse-Monbiot6dec05.htm

You can find more articles from other sources by typing:
biofuels worse for environment
into google.

He is right that we are far from there yet. But it is necessary to look at alternative sources of biofuels too -- not only sugarcanes and oils can be used! In many countries, it is possible to use waste materials from foraging (for example Sweden) which would otherwise have gone unused. But more importantly, it might be possible to use quite different approaches. For example, very promising progress has been made in the US where one looks at the possibility of growing algae in water-filled troughs in sun-rich areas. These algae would then grow, and you can extract energy from them. Apparently using the Mohave desert for this purpose could produce enough energy to satisfy the energy needs of the whole US. I'll try to dig up a source later.

Bottom line: there are indeed possibilities to make biofuels work, you just need an alternative approach.

 

[carlosMM]

Yeah, biofuel can be pretty harmful if the wrong plants and/or the wrong place to grow them is used.

That said, biogas and, if properly done, biofuel, can be wonderful! My biofuel comes from rape, and has an energy balance of 10% waste compared to conventional diesel (i.e. it used only 10% of the non-renewable energy as ordianry diesel), and rape can be grown without any trouble here in Germany.

 

[Abaddon]

obv. question.. how do you stop the water evaping?

 

[carlosMM]

obv. question.. how do you stop the water evaping?

Not!

And that is the biggest problem: using areas unsuitable for cultivation of the plants will create other problems than global warming, so it is a no-go.

Resolving this is the use of plants that can be grown effectively without too much environmental harm, e.g. by stopping over-production of cereal crops in Europe and instead growing plants that produce biogas. Same goes for the US. And much of South America. The Mojave Desert is best left alone!

 

[Abaddon]

Jatropha

 

[carlosMM]

Jatropha

nice, but not a mass production crop! OTOH, many such crops together can make a significant change, say 10% of oil needs. Potentially, some could be growing in crop rotation or multi-species plantations - always better than monoculture!

 

[Abaddon]

nice, but not a mass production crop! OTOH, many such crops together can make a significant change, say 10% of oil needs. Potentially, some could be growing in crop rotation or multi-species plantations - always better than monoculture!

Oh contrare!

Jatropha - planting programme
Up to 15 September 2006 D1 had planted jatropha or obtained the rights to offtake from a total of approximately 110,000 hectares of planting worldwide. D1 is undertaking planting in Southern Africa, India and South East Asia.

 

[carlosMM]

Oh contrare!

and I see the usual problems of monoculture, givent he fact that this is not a perennial which gives shade to the ground.

EDIT: I see this statement is wrong - I mixed this plant up with another! SORRY!

Remember that aside from some special areas in Europe, Asia and South Africa, most of the world's soils and climates are not really suitable for annuals over a long time, e.g. the US midwest! Yes, wheat etc can be grown there, but you can see the damage irrigation and wind erosion did, and do, and the same goes for much of central Africa.

Let me read up on your wonder plant some, maybe I am wrong, but I suspect it is not much better than wheat - and IF we are going to replace our fossil fuels with plant matter, then ideally we should go straight for those that do less damage than 'conventional' (i.e. conventional European) agriculture.

 

[Mise]

My biofuel comes from rape ... and rape can be grown without any trouble here in Germany.

No-one else found that funny?

 

[CartesianFart]

Land!Mo land consuption and mo problems!

That is why I don't support bio-fuel.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

No-one else found that funny?

Nope. Everybody knows Germans have some serious mental problems.

 

[Abaddon]

its a mental issue now? I thought physical..

 

[Drewcifer]

According to an editorial I read in a local paper research done by the University of Minnesota at the Cedar Creek research facility suggests that restored prairie produces nearly 200 times the yeild in biomass as a corn field in Minnesota. Once the technology for cellulosic ethanol is in place priairie restoration in the US, Canada, Ukraine, Russia and Argentina will probably help ease the current supply crunch.

Anyway the data is probably burried somewhere in this site:

www.cedarcreek.umn.edu

 

[Neomega]

here is a thread I made on the subject a few weeks ago

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=211106

 

[carlosMM]

No-one else found that funny?

It is (almost) only in America that people have a problem with the fact that the English language often has myriad different meanings for one word. Take, for example, the word for a male chicken...... which is the same as that for an anatomical part of a male, and happens to be the shorthand for 'Richard'..... and nobody cares, but yes, Americans tend to call the plant 'rape' 'rapeweed', and the seeds 'rapeseed'. Well, let them have their pleasure.