Black Boxes and Stat Calculators

I was in the process of creating a spreadsheet for my own use and making a blank nation page using the Nation00 which I was going to copy into 16 other nation pages. But as I was clearing out the Mayans(or the nation00), I noticed that the Civilian Leadership/max and Bureaucracy/Max B columns didn't have a formula but numbers added together. For example, Civilian Leadership/max has 1+1+1+1. Which are they suppose to do? How do you get them?
Edit: Since I don't want to go around messing up stuff, what do I have to do to create a clean, new 17 player spreadsheet?
 
I was in the process of creating a spreadsheet for my own use and making a blank nation page using the Nation00 which I was going to copy into 16 other nation pages. But as I was clearing out the Mayans(or the nation00), I noticed that the Civilian Leadership/max and Bureaucracy/Max B columns didn't have a formula but numbers added together. For example, Civilian Leadership/max has 1+1+1+1. Which are they suppose to do? How do you get them?
Edit: Since I don't want to go around messing up stuff, what do I have to do to create a clean, new 17 player spreadsheet?
If the cells are yellow they ar eimnput cells and the =1+1+1+1 would represent turn by turn spending by the player. You may just delete them.

Here is a line by line, cell by cell walk through.
Spoiler :

C24 should be blank. This is where you name any projects
B28-B32 is where you list any starting or added techs

Technology Spending
Delete everything in B35-B39

The Nation
Put 100 in C45 until you have a pixel count for the starting positions
Set the land base number (B48) for each nation based on location: 0-3; if you don’t know what to use now put a 1.
Leave B49 as a 1
Leave B50 as a 5
B52-B55 should be 0

Government Practices
B59 treasury should be set to the starting amount for each nation, IIRC I used 3
D62 = 0 E62 make1
B63 = 1 C63 = 1
B64 = 0
B65 – C68 = 0
B69 = 1
B73 = pick a starting tax rate for DE; I used 45%
B75 = pick a starting tax rate for trade; I used 50%
C79 = 25
B80= 30% = .3
B81 = -2
B82 = 1

Domestic economy
B86 = 1-5% your choice
B87 = 1 C87 = 1
B88 – C96 = 0
C97 = 5
C98 = 0
C99 = 1
B100-D100 as is: .2; .1; 0
E102 = 0
E103 = 4
E104 = 100%
E105 = 75%

Military Practices
B109 = 0 C109 = 0
B115-E116 = your troop quantity per unit of currency in the game.
B117-D117 = 0
B118 = 0
B119 & D119 = number of starting troops of each type
B120 & C120 left blank until UU is named
B121 & C121 = starting size of navy and trade fleets
Lines 123-124 are where you set the cost of army and navy upkeep. Change to what you want to use.
B&C 125 affects maximum allowed army size. Play around and choose what you like.
B126-C131 are used to calculate the army indexes. I’d leave them for now.

Trade
B140=5
B142=0
B143=.5
B144 =formula leave; C144=5% or whatever number you want Trade fleets to affect trade. This can change by nation based on policy and actions.
B&C 145 not used
B147 = 0
B148 = 0
B149 = 1
B&C150 = 0 & 0
B151 = 4

Culture & Religion
The yellow cells other than B161 & B162 should be 0s
B161 = 1
B162 = 4

Go to the Trade tab and zero out anything in columns G-N. This will reduce all trade to zero.

If you go back to the top of the player sheet you will see that available spending is zero with three in the treasury. Depending upon what you want to provide players at the start, you can add 1 to base spend; add more the treasury, do nothing, or change one or more of the zeros in B88-B91 to a 1. Each time you make a change you can see the affect on available spending.

Column G at the very top will show you exactly what the posted stats will look like. If you see things you don’t like or understand, then follow the arrows back to the sources.

Once you are happy with the first player nation on the C1P1 tab. Then you can make the same changes to the other tabs. Do not copy and paste from tab to tab or create new tabs. If you do that you will mess up all the links to the trade tab and the comparison tab. Those are a pain to fix. Just bite the bullet and do the data entry on each tab. Once you have players, you can change the tab names to match players and then fix the country names at the top of each tab.

On the sheet I posted all the player tabs automatically roll up to one of three cradle tabs. The cradle tabs then are just copied into the forum post once you have updated the individual tabs.

12 tabs roll up to cradle 1
3 to cradle 4
14 to cradle 2
12 to cradle 3

Rather than try to change the roll ups to all be on the same cradle tab, I would just use two cradles and copy and paste twice. On the top of each cradle tab, there are lines where you can describe the cradle situation. Change as needed.

Now once you have the whole thing ready to go, make a back up copy.


Let me know how it goes.
 
Sorry for the late response.:(
While finishing cleaning up the Nation00, 1 problems arised.
1. Where is C99? Is this a typo?

Other than that nothing wrong happened. I'll be posting a starting spreadsheet soon, which I will use to test my understanding of the spreadsheet later.
Edit: To get rid of a generic title like MNES: The Dawn of Civilization, I thought up MNES: Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire, this seem like a decent title?
 
Sorry for the late response.:(
While finishing cleaning up the Nation00, 1 problems arised.
1. Where is C99? Is this a typo?

Other than that nothing wrong happened. I'll be posting a starting spreadsheet soon, which I will use to test my understanding of the spreadsheet later.
Edit: To get rid of a generic title like MNES: The Dawn of Civilization, I thought up MNES: Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire, this seem like a decent title?
C99 is right next to B99. sheesh! But it was a typo on my part and should have been B99.

MNES: OOTFP-ITF :mischief: I have no clue about good names for NESes.
 
Amazing work, I am plunging straight into analysis.
 
Bird, I don't think using a random operator with a uniform distribution is the best idea for battle sims, a normal distribution would much better show standard outcomes and million-to-one shots succeeding ;).
 
Bird, I don't think using a random operator with a uniform distribution is the best idea for battle sims, a normal distribution would much better show standard outcomes and million-to-one shots succeeding ;).
Rebuild it and post something for us to look at. I am open to changing it.
 
Bird, I don't think using a random operator with a uniform distribution is the best idea for battle sims, a normal distribution would much better show standard outcomes and million-to-one shots succeeding ;).
Rebuild it and post something for us to look at. I am open to changing it.
Try the following (I can't test them right now, but I am willing to bet they'll work; if they don't tell me what the stuff says is wrong):
[pre]Function Dice(number, side)
Dim counter As Integer = 0
Dim thing As Integer = 0
Do Until counter = number
thing = thing + Cint((StaticRand() * side) + 1)
counter = counter + 1
Loop
Dice = temp
End Function[/pre]
Or, for something a bit more elegant (though I'm less sure if it will work, I dunno if VB does recursion):
[pre]Function Dice(number, side, thing)
thing = thing + Cint((StaticRand() * side) + 1)
if number = 1 Then return thing
return Dice(number - 1, side, thing)
End Function[/pre]
Both of these requires the previously-written StaticRand() function around, though you could use Rnd with the same problems as before. BTW, I'm not sure how to call functions in VB; if neither of those work, try removing the "()" from "StaticRand()" in the code.

To get a nice, "centered", random number, just use more "dice". 3d6 is nice a value from 3-18, though if you want something from 0.01-1.00 you could do... =(Dice(X,100)/X)*0.01, where X is any value from 2 to infinity (the higher the value, the closer to 50 the average random number will be).

Of course, you could do another function, to make things less clunky, like so:
[pre]Function BANANABONANZA(PIRATE)
BANANABONANZA = (Dice(PIRATE, 100)/PIRATE) * 0.01
End Function[/pre]
So you only have to call BANANABONANZA(5) if you want (Dice(5, 100)/5) * 0.01; in fact, you can remove PIRATE if you're comfortable with a number already, so if you like five then you could just call BANANABONANZA() every time to get Dice(5, 100)/5.

Oh, if you're going to use the second code you have do "=Dice(3, 6, 0)" (for 3d6, for example), with that zero sticking out the end every time. Yeah it's ugly, though when I said more elegant I meant the code, not the calling. :p

---

Oh, I forgot how StaticRand() worked. If what I posted above is to work as intended, then you StaticRand() will have to return a value between 0 and 1... If it does, then we be happy, aye?

---

EDIT: You know what, I hate Object-Oriented Programming for making me think in "real-world" terms, as evidenced by this "dice" shenanigans. The best ways (at least this is what I think; I'm a nubcake) to implement BANANABONANZA, even without Dice(), are:
[pre]Function BANANABONANZA(PARROT)
Dim thing as Double = 0
Dim counter as Integer = 0
Do Until counter = PARROT
thing = thing + StaticRand()
PARROT = PARROT + 1
Loop
BANANABONANZA = thing/PARROT
End Function[/pre]
OR
[pre]Function BANANABONANZA(PARROT, ZIMBABWE)
ZIMBABWE = ZIMBABWE + StaticRand()
if PARROT = 1 Then return ZIMBABWE
return BANANABONANZA(PARROT - 1, ZIMBABWE)
End Function[/pre]
... with ZIMBABWE being started off as 0 every time as thing was in the second Dice() code.
 
whoa!!! Let me try and digest all that. I am not a programmer of any sort so it may take some trial and error. If one of those works, what will it produce in terms of a random number that is different than what I'm using now?

Currently, I believe that I get a random percent between 0% and 100% to which I add or subtract other percents based on the game and battle situation. If the net of the RNG and the variables is over 100%, the attacker wins and if less, the defender.

Are your formulas producing a bell curve centered around 50%? If so, I need to rework the other parts. Also why such a curve be better for resolving combat?

Thanks. :)
 
If one of those works, what will it produce in terms of a random number that is different than what I'm using now?
Dice(x,y) and Dice(x,y,0) will produce a number based on an xdy (x dice with y number of sides, if you're unfamiliar with the notation) dice roll.

The BANANABONANZA()s will produce random numbers centered around 0.50, depending on the value of PIRATE or PARROT. So, BANABONANZA(2) is less likely to produce something close to 0.50 than a BANANABONANZA(100).
Currently, I believe that I get a random percent between 0% and 100% to which I add or subtract other percents based on the game and battle situation. If the net of the RNG and the variables is over 100%, the attacker wins and if less, the defender.
I believe so, too.
Are your formulas producing a bell curve centered around 50%?
BANANABONANZA() does. Dice() is a little more flexible.
If so, I need to rework the other parts. Also why such a curve be better for resolving combat?
Ask Disenfrancised; I was just throwing out something for you people to plug in so that you could analyze the effects. :)
 
Sorry for not posting my NES starter model, haven't had much time to spend changing it, but I should have it up by the end of the weekend. However, I was going through the Nation 00 page and changing all the green cells you mentioned in page 1 and the all were input cells, like population base, Significant natural resources, At home War & Rebellion: -5 to 0. But in the color key, you said that green cells are calculated, so I'm a tad confused, what are the green cells, input or calculated.:confused:
 
I finally fiddled with Birdjaguar's vanilla combat calculator, and I find it disturbing that at "completely even", the attacker has only has a one in one hundred chance of winning a close victory. The random effect only dictates how badly they lose 99% of the time.
 
In the key at the top of nation 00 it reads like so:

Yellow: Mod inputs based on spending & policies
Green: Calculated. Change at your peril.
Blue: Use global variables

Now you are using an export to Excel 2003 so may be the colors exported wrong. The colored cells to the right of the above text should match the words.

You might go here and install the compatibility pack so your version of excel can read the 2007 version. Install this and then download the 2007 file and open it. See how the colors look.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/HA101686761033.aspx

In any case here is a screen shot of the top part of nation00. You should be able to see which cells are green and which are yellow to help you match colors and guide you through the remainder of the sheet. Let me know how you fare.
 

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I finally fiddled with Birdjaguar's vanilla combat calculator, and I find it disturbing that at "completely even", the attacker has only has a one in one hundred chance of winning a close victory. The random effect only dictates how badly they lose 99% of the time.
Upon reflection, I guess that would be true. While even armies should be disadvantageous to an attacker, it should not be so badly weighted. It is odd that such a clear problem went unnoticed. I tested a variety of situations, but most were the extremes. Good catch. Thanks.
 
Is that why a lot of the wars in BirdNES2 were nigh-totally-useless (leading to the perception that you're a "nanny mod" :)), except when entire coalitions of nations begin beating on another one?

It still doesn't explain why cultures tended to die faster than states, though. ;)
 
Is that why a lot of the wars in BirdNES2 were nigh-totally-useless (leading to the perception that you're a "nanny mod" :)), except when entire coalitions of nations begin beating on another one?

It still doesn't explain why cultures tended to die faster than states, though. ;)
I did not use this in any of my games. It is new and I put it out for viewing and discussion to vet it and for folks to find problems I have missed. Public access is the best way I know to test out ideas.

The culture-nation problems in BirdNES 2 were my own. My transition from a historical game to a imaginary culture one did not go as I had planned.
 
Here's my stat model, hopefully I got everything right.:) Regarding the green cells, I downloaded the program you posted Birdy, but it didn't change anything, so I manually changed only the Nation00 page, cause I want to make sure that all the green cells correct. No point in doing the other nation pages when it might be wrong.

Also, after reading the all Manouash and Manipur updates. I'll say that things were actually fine and decisive enough:), because your not going to conquer a entire nation with 1,200 troops in the 2nd update. Towards the 7th and 8th updates, things picked up accordingly. You can do things with a 30,000 man army Kapo had, too bad they got crushed.

Edit: The new title I thought up is, MNES: The Tides of Change.
 

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@Bird, You mentioned several times that if someone's troops count goes slighty over the troop limit, you'd fix it. How?:confused:
 
@Bird, You mentioned several times that if someone's troops count goes slighty over the troop limit, you'd fix it. How?:confused:
Simple, I'd lower it after the turn resolves as if the troops had been recruited just for the war. If it is just a bit over, I'd likely ignore it, or kill them off in battle.
 
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