Bogged Down in First Emperor Game

[Etym]

The major reason I gave up playing C3c was that victory was often too easy at Monarch. By the Industrial Age, I was typically far ahead in science, size and military power so the game became boring. But when I took up the game again over the holidays, I resolved to move up and am now playing my first Emperor level game (Conquests v.1.22).

This was a random start that produced a Pangaea map with 11 opponents (casting me as the Netherlands). Victory conditions were set to conquest only. My capital and core are situated at one end of the continent, while the top AI contenders (Greece and Sumeria) began too far away to threaten me early. The strongest local competition turned out to be Carthage (next door and now almost eliminated) and England (on the other side of Carthage, now one of the top 3 AI and next door to Sumeria)

The start went rather well – by squeezing settlers out of every town that could build them I kept pace with the AI leaders in the expansion phase and entered the Middle Ages with a small lead in cities, pop, land and economy. Life got tougher at this point.

The science competition from the AI was a lot stronger than I was used to, and several times I lagged behind. So far, I’ve been able to catch up periodically by concentrating research on a single path and trading those techs for the ones I missed along the way. Right now, I’m basically neck-and-neck with the top AI civs in science, nearing the end of the Industrial Age. The problem is that I’ve bogged down economically since the Middle Ages.

I have about 40 cities, 25 or so being very productive and the rest not so much. I have a good sized military, but many of the units need upgrading which I can’t afford (my UU is Swiss Mercenary, which I can only upgrade to Infantry since I bypassed Nationalism until after I got Replaceable Parts; it costs 180 gold to upgrade ONE of these guys).

Sumeria, Greece and England are all “strong” militarily compared to me, and they’ve expanded through warfare since the early phase. At this point, 5 civs have been eliminated (none by me, though I got some territory and resources from my neighbors Carthage and Byzantium), and the 3 smallest AI (including my neighbors) are on the verge of extinction. So it’s gonna be me against the “big 3” for the title.

The good news is that I’m not far from Mass Production and then tanks. The bad news is that one of the big 3 is sure to attack me soon and my economy is stagnant – I can’t seem to keep up with research, building and upgrades while still holding the line on happiness.

Should I change govt? The big 3 are all fascist, while I’ve been a Republic since the Middle Ages. This is going to give them a big advantage in war, I suspect, but I don’t think I can afford the economic hit changing govts would give me since I’m already strained in that area. I’m thinking about Communism or mobilization, but don’t like not being able to build non-military units or having to pop-rush instead of paying.

How can I boost my economy? My 2 neighbors don’t have much money, so gaining money through conquest doesn’t seem likely (unless I take on the big 3, perhaps).

How should I build up my military? Since the big war(s) will likely occur soon, I’m concerned 1) that I won’t have the money to upgrade/rush in time to stop the invader(s), 2) that I may have to stop/minimize research to afford upgrades and (eventual) war unhappiness, and 3) that my economy just won’t grow enough to build the huge armies I’ll need to achieve conquest.

Finally, I’d like to get some armies in the field. Apparently I didn’t war enough in the earlier stages because I generated no GLs. I could sure use a couple of armies to combat the larger AI military.

A zip of my current saved game is attached. As always, any advice is greatly appreciated. At this point, a few prayers might help, too.

 

[TheOverseer714]

How much Artillery do you have? Your corrupt cities should be building them. How many workers do you have? You should be fully railed by now and have factories building Infantry to man your border towns. I may take a look at your save later. Can you post some screenshots?

 

[Etym]

I used the funds I had to fully upgrade cannon to artillery - I have about 25 on hand. I'm fully railed in the sense that all my cities are connected and I'm using workers to improve output from individual cities in the core, now. I'm just completing the last factories and hospitals in the extended core region. My border towns on the Carthage/England/Sumeria side have had their old units upgraded to infantry - continuing to upgrade the others as money permits (saving some for rush jobs, trading, etc.)

I've never developed a useful plan for best utilizing corrupt cities, so I'll try building artillery as you suggest. Thanks for the input - I'll take more if you've got it.

BTW - I don't know how to do screenshots ... can you point me to the appropriate thread?

 

[vmxa]

Many ways to do screenies, I use Irfanview (free). Set it to a hot key for full screen capture. Use the save as to put it on your desktop or a folder. It has a resize option, if your screen is other 1024.

I would not switch govs, unless you have no choice. The amount of anarchy will be painful. You will probably not be starting the war so you should be able to handle happiness.

Any gov with MP will force you to keep troops for happiness, you need yours to fight. If you skipped Nat, good idea, you cannot mobilize. I would not worry about upgrades, more than a few spots.

If you have rails on the borders and to most towns, you should be able to defend all but the biggest stacks.

I will try to look at the save and post something. hate to dump out of my Moo game right now. The action was just getting good.

 

[vmxa]

Trades:

England RoP and Rubber trades, I would nearly never give anyone rubber. RoP in the IA is a no no as well. You have rails, so they could get any where.

Greece, are you crazy? You gave two lux to a top dog. Lets make sure they are a tech leader, hey I know I will give them two lux, that should do it. Wow I got one back, sweet what a deal. I know they will not do a one for one, so do none. Use your slider, it does not hurt that much.

Carthage well if two lux for 1 is good, how good is a lux and a critical resource (coal) for a few gold? I would fight to the death rather than give them all that.

Summeria why would you give them RoP, they are huge and not close to you anyway?

If the AI wants to make an RoP trade and you do not want it, but do not want to just tell them to get lost, offer then 10 gold. Just select would you consider another deal and give them 10 gold for nothing, They will not love it, but they will not hate it either.

Once you are at Emperor better, you should take great care about trades. I prefer to only do them in the AA or with very weak civs. I do not want to feed the machine of a strong AI. If they want to DOW, go ahead and make my day.

You are 1 or 2 in the big four, so you should be solid.

What is the galleon up to right now? Why did you make an explorer? Why even have a galleon at this stage?

You currently have 46 swiss merc? Why would you make so many? You were not playing AW, so no need for so many defenders. If you have fewer all along you would have had more money for research or expanding or structures.

You are paying 222gpt for support that is killing you. I would rarely get that high in an AW game. You either have to use troops or not have them. If you want to build them in large numbers go to Monarchy and keep killing your neighbors. Otherwise build enough to deal with nations that transgress and to discourage others.

Double your support is going to keep you in trouble, unless they are taking land.

You never got an MGL, hence no army and no HE or MA or Pentagon. These are critical structures, unless you are playing for Space or UN. You are only allowing Conquest, so you must have those buildings.

Anyway you should be fine for any attacks, you have to worry about bombers soon so a war with Byz first. Get that land and work hard to get a leader. Use cavs to get an elite and pound them with arty and send in the elites.

Then get Carthage and prepare for England. You have to get moving there is a lot of towns to take down for conquest.

You can drop a few more towns in some of those large holes to up your support a bit.

I did not look at the cities to see what was going on in them and see if some optimization could be done. Nor the land to see if tiles are being use for the correct things. A large map is a lot of work and if you do not trim a few nations, you could end up with a couple of very large nations to deal with.

That may not be an issue for some victory condition, but it a bad one for conquest or domination.

 

[vmxa]

Just a partial look at the towns:

Preferences I would at least add Always Build Previous. I would turn off all the animation, except battles.

Color Blind is useful for posting as it give the name of the nation in the town.

I see a Sumerian town in your area. How did that happen was it just an open spot or did they grab a town? I cannot abide anyone in my back area. I just do not want to have to keep track of them.

I am not a fan of making factories all over the place as most seem to be, I do not need all those places making units as I cannot pay for them. I hope you did not research Ironclads, unless it was to peddle it for other techs.

I will build them in some games, but not in a mass land game. I just do not make a great use of ships here. Too much area to cover, so I would rather have units. You have several builds going now, maybe with an eye to upgrade to destroyers. Still that cost money and how many DD's are enough to cover all the coast? The island is so close you do not need support to invade.

I would want some settlers to fill in some area's and be ready to replace towns that I either raze or capture and replace. I call that combat settlers. So I would switch Spiern to a settler now. I would sell the factory after the settler comes out. It has 16 base shields and gains 8 from a factory. That cost you 240 shields or 3 cavs.

As you are not fighting anyway I would have not build it nor the cavs. Saving 3gpt for the approx 20 turns it took to build and all the turns after that. Call it 70 gold. Times a few more cities doing the same. You could
have learned one more tech over all those turns. Make that two, if you self researched Ironclads.

You need another settler to jam in close to Sippar to block them from growing and also to keep an eye on them. So that is one on the hills of Lynk and one for Sippar area. I am sure I could slap in at least two more in tundra. Likely more than that as many of those towns would be 1 pop doing beaker head only.

Adranople is 81% corrupt not a place I am anxious to build up. I would switch to a settler here and make another beaker head. I would go ahead and irrigate all green tiles and get a rail on them, this place can get me 10bpt right away and then sell the temple.

Proma: well it is a shame a hospital was built here at great expense. I would not have researched Sanitation as it is a peace game, I can trade for it. If it were a war game, I cannot afford the time to research. If you are going for something like space, why -222gpt for support?

IOW to me you are working at cross purposes. The tiles here are not good to support a metro. You have 13 tiles. Four are coastal, 1 is a hill, 1 is a plains forest and the rest are mostly desert. So 3 food in some and 2 in most others. Ok wait you are AgG so 3 in a railed desert with water.

Are you going to be able to get them irrigated and rails build any time soon? I would not have any cathedrals as I would not have a hospital and those shields and maint would be spend on something else. Stuck now as you
will get bigger. I would sell the cathedral as I get the extra pop and make them specialist. Hum I have to hold that though as I do not know what the lux status is right now.

I am guessing some is in trade and those are not reliable, so you may have to eat the cathedral for a long time.

I guess I let the Ironclad finish and it will become a DD some day. I would chop the trees and mine the place and rail it. You get 3 shields or just lose the shields and go for more food. Either way no trees in the IA, they should be chopped in AA or Middle Age.

Hago:
Take two pop off plains and make CE shave 4 turns off Hoover. Get rails up and them mine a few more tiles to get it sooner. You may be able to put the CE back to work on some mined tiles and get the beakers and gold.


Sell the Colosseum and never build any more of them.

Nicaea: I forgot, turn off the gov every where. Sell the barracks and temple. Switch to worker and then sell the harbor. I would never have built it. My take on tundra towns with no food bonus is to put the lone pop as beaker head and let it sit. Now AG makes that a bit of a pain as the extra food lets it try to grow. It cannot afford to have 2 pop both not working, so one goes to a 1 food tile.

This dump is making 26 commerce and nets 1 gold and 2 beakers. It was running a deficit. Sell the stuff make the specials and get 3bpt and the 1 gold and pay no maint. Now I put two pop to specialist and get 1 gold and
7bpt. I pay for the harbor only. After the worker pops check to see if the harbor is worth it or not.

Hippo: no more cathedrals they cost money. It is about 61% corrupt, if you want to do anything here court house would make sense. If you do not intend to do anything here, then it gets neither a court or cathedral.

Every worked tile has a rail and it still only nets 4gpt and 6bpt. It has a harbor, but no one is working the coast and no reason they should. Sell it. I switch the cathedral to an arty. You could go with either a cav or an infantry as well.

Sell the granary as I am not concerned with growth at this stage of the game in a 61% town. Let it grow at what ever pace it can, if at all. To that end, irrigation would have done some good and that is what I would do with the grass tiles. Then sell the lib and temple and use beaker heads. I want to not spend on these places. Let them contribute with farms. Put the joker to a scientist, gets 9bpt now.

Smyra: dang, it is making a police station? It is size 5, has a temple and a market and BTW it is not growing.

HELLO, what is the deal I do not have much hair left, please. Down to basic, why did you research Commie in the first place? Wait why did you research 5 optional techs already this age? You got 2 from the ToE, 14 from research or trades and 5 are optional.

I would often research none of them and that is a game where I cannot trade for them either. If you were being pressed, you could make a case for Nationalism, but I would rather jet for RP. espionage is not bad, but you can
do with out in a peaceful game. AW I may need it to steal, depends.

Alright, back to work. Smyra is 3gpt and 3bpt. The maint is 3 so you gained nothing. Three beakers you could get for one specialist. I sell off everything. Switch to settler and will pop settlers out till it is down to size 2, where it will stay. I went ahead and sent in a few Swiss Merc to disband to get settler out.

Einder: 66% size 13 has Colosseum, factory and getting a uni? Wait it is size 13 and nets 7 beakers. That is two specialist. You want to spend all those shields and time and maint to gain 3 bpt? The factory gained you 5 gross shields, nice deal for 240 shields. You do gain that nice pollution boost, oh wait we do not want that do we?

I sell it. Switch to explorer to get the shields and will disband it some place. Sell Colosseum. Would sell the other stuff after getting some specialist up. Need to irrigate and rail to get that going.

Zwitten switch to worker, even though it will drop to city. Will grow right back. Sell factory. Sell barracks. Would sell more after irrigation and specialist.

To me what is the value of another metro. You got the pollution and the time to build hospital and then grow before you get any specialist. Size 12 can get 4 or 5 specialist right away, no pollution, no maint for structures other than aqua maybe. If it was close to finished with the hospital, that is another story it is not.

Sabratha: put some hill workers to beaker heads. Could use to hurry market as CE for time as well. Move to use irrigated grass that has a rail. I keep barracks on border towns, may need them to heal. Later as borders move, I sell them.

This just part of the towns, but you get the idea.
F1
pre: 349 maint 222 unit -52gpt 2202 gold
now: 330 maint 216 unit -33gpt 2296 gold

Once you slap down 3-5 new town it will look better and more work on the other towns is still available.

 

[vmxa]

BTW no one is making the IA, so why research it? No one is making the Battlefield Med. I would like to start a pre for HE/MA as well fairly soon. I would look at one of those Hospitals or Cathedrals going up.

BTW one of the reason that having Sumeria town back there is that they may want to send units to that town. Now what? No problem if you want them to DOW, just tell them to get out and you are likely to get just that.

If not, now they are going to have a stream of units moving in your land. You are in Republic, so you should not have units in all towns, so they would be a temptation. Yeah, I know you do have units in all towns, that is killing you.

IF they did not have that town, you still have to wonder if they are on the way to Theo's house. Do you shadow or tell them to leave? It just adds to the complications.

Rusicade: switch the hospital (38 turns) to BM (well over 100 turns). I then sell the market. I put 5 pop to CE and the wonder will be done in 38.

I went through some more cities and I left too many alone, but got it down to -2gpt with 2767gold.

Traded:
Electronics to Greece for Combustion/Fascism/World map/70 gold and 10gpt. I would prefer to give AT, but I guess that was peddled. Actually I missed clicked and ended up where I was countering his offer. I saw he had 4
workers so I asked for them and got them as well.

I think I should have ended the current trade and then done a deal, probably could have gotten a lux.

Electronic to England for Free Art/World Map and 1260 gold.

Sold SciMeth to Hannibal for 160gold. He will not be around that long.

Used the 4 slaves to chop at Random and drop a turn off the hospital.

Electronic to Sumeria for gpt and two lux and 140 gold. No one has more than 6 gold now.

Cash up to 4397.

Research Flight at 70% -183gpt in 10 turns. Will improve soon as you get a few more towns down and a few less troops. I have not sold off any as I would want to see a turn or two to see how things shake out. Any trades die or any war starts. If not then, I would move to disband a bunch of stuff.

I select Flight instead of Mass as I prefer bombers to deal with any frigates or destroyers. They can soften up other targets or finish off those red lined units. You can do without tanks now and would have them as soon as any one else does.

I have the IA and BM going and a pre for either HE or whatever makes sense. I suspect it may be Wall St as I switched to some Stock Exchanges. Ivory will start a pre soon for the MA. It is the strongest city.

We would take a risk on Hoovers, but no wonders are going so they will not get a big start and we should not have any problem as long as they do not get a leader. If they get even an MGL, we lost it. It is not a huge deal to me as I normally would not have that many factories anyway.

 

[Elliot]

vmxa's advice looks really good.

I would go for communism though. The anarchy will be 7 turns but communism in conquests is amazing for large empires. I looked in civ assist and your science would drop from ~537-388, but your production would increase a lot and your unit upkeep problems would disappear. If you're going to win a domination victory you're going to gain a lot more cities than you have now and the corruption will only get worse. Once you get motorized transport, I would revolt to communism and start warring.

See if you can trade for those 2 luxuries from Sumeria. You'll go from 5 to 7 luxuries which will give you 7 more happy citizens in cities with markets. I'd rather do that than build cathedrals.

You're going to need a lot more workers. Especially once your size 12 cities start growing and you start producing a ton of pollution. Cleaning up all that pollution will make it difficult to rail the rest of your empire.

Since your cities are linked by rail, I'd move garrisons out of your inner cities. You only need to garrison those cities that are within 3 squares of the border, and those that are on the coast once marines are around. (btw, does the computer even know how to use units that can attack from the sea? In my last game I had numerous cities on the coast that were undefended and the vikings never used their unique unit to attack from their ships. They did land them on my continent however.)

Start warring now and pick a fight with one of the super powers(probably England) once you've taken out the Byzantines and the Carthaginian cities that are near your northern border.

Overall though, you look fine. You're #1 in population and #2 in cities and land. And you have all the strategic resources that your current tech allows.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Communism might be more desirable if you were Religious with a 2 turn Anarchy, but in this case, it would be a costly diversion. It is not that hard to war as a Republic, as long as you fight smart. Just make sure you get things that add to happiness in the wars, like grabbing luxuries, happiness wonders, and get weak, far away opponents to declare on you for war happiness. Fight smart, limiting your losses and not getting bogged down. If the enemy has high culture, raze cities. Only keep cities with useful wonders and starve them down. There are articles in the war academy that deal with techniques to win wars fast, you should read up. vmxa might come across as brusque, but he is our forum expert on fixing troubled games, so take his advice to heart.

 

[vmxa]

Yeah I do not intend to be gruff, those are meant to be funny. As to commie, no way would I revolt. The support cost will go down soon enough. The loss of production for 6-9 turns is just not worth it.

It may be that you could get more out of communism, but having to use pop to rush things is a killer. Research is not a problem, in 10 -15 turns I would be solid on science.

Let me say again, I do not care about corruption. This is not a massive AW game, so you do not need more than a handful of cities making units. All those new towns will just make specialist and 100% corruption has no impact.

Anyway you do not have a lot of time to take down all these towns. You need to get armies up to make this go faster. Many slaves will come on board as you raze some of those large cities.

You are going to want to rush settlers often, doing that with pop is going to make it take longer to get the town back up to put out another settler.

 

[vmxa]

Etym I don't know if you played this out or even if you will be posting again. I should have noticed you only have 15 post, which often means not coming back. Anyway if you are still working on this game, skip the next few post.

I played the game out and will post the log and a a couple of screenies.

 

[vmxa]

1630AD:
shaved 6 turns off of hoovers with workers mining. Told Hannibal to get out and he does. Same for Theo. They want to go at each other.

1635AD:
Attacked Byz and eliminated them keeping the 4 towns. Dropped flight by a turn and -112gpt so about 60gpt better now. Mostly by adding those 4 towns and maybe 5 of our own. No promotions or leaders, lost only two cavs.

1655AD:
Last turn I jump Hanniabal and took two towns I placed another down in the area that was aggressive towards Liz. Then next turn I move a settler in above the captured city and abandon the city. Found a new one to get better spacing.

That is to get CxxC and to take more land from Liz or at least deny her some tiles. I keep finding places to plop new towns in the existing lands.

I grabbed a town on the island and should get the other one, if they do not get troops via ship on the IBT. That would put Hannibal to OCC and then I will make peace.

1660AD:
Grabbed the town on the island so they are off it. Razed city and capture the other. They have two tiny towns far away. I have to wait for them to talk, before I can make peace.

Got a leader and created 1st. Next turn will switch Palace pre to HE. I have a lot of elites now. Will start a fighter and a few bombers.

1670AD:
Made peace for their next to last town, which I gifted to England. They had gotten annoyed after I encroached on them a bit. Now they are happy and the crap town is far away in Sumerian land. Let them fight over it, if they want. Hannibal is OCC now.

1680AD:
During the last IBT Sumeria demanded flight and I said no. They DOW and use a few arties on one of my towns and sent in units. They went right past several stacks of workers, thank you (whew).

I gave Liz ivory to jump in the war. Greece and Henry were already at war with Sumeria. Only Hannibal is on the side line, but he is OCC anyway. I got a few riots from the loss of lux and income I had been getting. This is why I tend to not make deals as they can blow up and you get riots.

I would rather do without the lux and set my empire up to deal with it. Then when I annex the lux, I have a bonus. Of course I would never get to the point where all the land is settled and I have rails up and not take someone down. England's land would have given the lux needed.

Killed a bunch of troops and got a leader, formed 2nd. Captured the lame Sumerian town in the snow.

I could not resist getting Hannibal into the action. Gave Sanitation for alliance. I figure they will not last long, so I traded AT for their gold (40). No sense in Sumeria getting it.

Now if Sumeria helps out by taking Cadiz, I will be golden. It blocks by access to Sumeria. If they grab it and I then take it back, I will have a corridor.

1685AD:
Sumeria starts with 63 towns, I know they had 62 a couple of turns back and I took one. Greece has 22 and now has 19, so looks like Greeks are losing. England has 35, Hannibal has 1, Henry has 4. He had 5 and I have 64. I am not doing anything this turn, healing. Next turn we will go on the offense.

1690AD:
Looks like they did grab Cadiz, sweet. I got a spy in and I see they have a Leader. About 221 infantry and 39 cavs. I captured Cadiz. It had 1 infantry and two wounded cavs. I killed 3 other cavs by Leptis.

1700AD:
Razed a city, I have a settler on site for next turn. I found Hannibal with a worker so I traded Ironclad for it. Greece and Sumeria made peace. I got another leader.

1715AD:
A couple more leaders and now 5 cav armies and one empty for the tanks. I will have 4 next turn. Two more turns and the MA will pop out an army.

AI has done little, here is the city count:
England 34 (down 1)
Henry 3 (down 2)
Greece 20 (up 1)
Sumeria 60 (down 3, plus as I have taken 4)
Rand 70 (up 6)

IBT:
AI shows its usual stupidity. Henry joins Sumeria against me. Lucky for Henry is too far away. They also DOW Hannibal. How he is still around escapes me. Greece signs an MPP with Liz, must be something in the water. Alex had just made peace and now has to DOW Sumeria again.

Sumeria makes no attacks on any of my towns and I see nothing Vs Liz either. So he just runs back and forth, while I kill off a few units. Well if they played better you could not beat them on Sid.

1720AD:
Leader now 2 empty armies, but will fill them this turn. Leader 3 empty armies now. Not sure what is going on, but twice I have notice my net income drop way off. Not long ago I was showing about -104gpt and then it was over -200gpt, no idea why. Now I have been running about -50gpt and it jumped up to -106gpt?

No change in slider, no deals changed, no riots. I am probably going to have to get peace in a few turns as being in Republic will start to hurt with only 3 lux. I may be able to go longer as they declared on me and I just had Henry DOW, we will see.

Filled the 6th cav army. Put 3 tanks in the 7th as the other tank was used and went elite. Still one empty and one coming out of the MA next turn.
I think the cash loss is due to having to take citizens and make them specialist (science). It may not take that many from Metro's with a market, bank and stock market. Too lazy to check.

Capture Der, but have no settler to replace. Will have a couple next turn and then will combat replace it. Shame to not be able to raze for slaves. I have to cut off England first. If not then a raze would let too many tiles swing into their borders and I could not found the new town. This town will cut them from most of the rest of the action for a time.

1725AD:
Finally Sumeria finished off Hannibal. Henry is down to 2 towns. Alex finally got smart and worked on Henry, rather than Sumeria. England gain a town, must have built it. I let a stack of 12 cavs go by as they are going to attack Oxford, I hope.

I want to give them a chance to take it. I hope that they hold it, if they do get it. I see Sumeria still sitting on its leader or got a new one. They are down to 170 inf and 31 cavs.

1735AD:
yet another leader. 8th army is filled with tanks. Grab Summer with Smith's. That drops income to -13gpt. So I raised the research to 80%, now -148gpt. Get off the dime and disband any Crusader or SM still around and now -102gpt. They rushed a bank and an Exchange, so that helps a bit.

IBT:

They made a lame attempt to get Summer back, but it had a full health tank army and 3 nearly healed cav armies, no chance. I saw England actually kill a few Sumerians.

1752AD:
9 armies full and the 10th has 3 tanks. Got grapes now, so the pressure should be off.

England 36
Henry 2
Greece 21
Sumeria 52
Randy 79

Sumeria 25 cavs and 141 infantry.

1754AD:
Captured two tundra towns and razed a city and replaced next to it.

1760AD:
Slow progress, not made a leader nor am I making armies. Putting pollution structures. I saw England grab a town. I could not get it as they had troops blocking my path. Anyway they must have lost one as they are at the same number as they have been for a while.

England 36
Henry 2
Greece 21

all no change.

Sumeria 44, from a high AFAIK of 63
Rand 89

I took a pix to show the land is now cut in half by Rand. England behind me and the rest in front. I have dropped unit support to 120gpt. I reduced research to bump the lux to forestall any riots. If I can get one more lux, then I should be able to cut back. No one is in the Modern Age, so no big deal. I have Computers and some mechs. The AI just bypass the mechs, does not want to fight them.

Sumeria still manages to get about a dozen cavs out and a few infantry each turn. That is just what I kill out side of cities and does not include what England does or the kills from taking towns. Last I knew Sumeria had 7 types of lux, so that lets them spend on war and research.

1762AD:
Got a leader. had to make a cav army, no tanks. Renamed Tank-7th to 12th. New cav is 7th. Makes sense hey Mr Custer? Grabbed two towns and found one. No settlers left a few due next turn. Grab another city.

Only change is Sumeria 41 towns, Rand 93. Sumeria is down to 9 cavs and 112 infantry. They have 41 towns, so they can be expected to only send out what ever they make each turn now, maybe a few others. Right now it looks like they are not able to replace all the losses each turn. Gassed is the term.

IBT:
Liz wants to renew the alliance for Ivory. I gave her 10 gold and let the deal die. Alex wants to trade world maps, no. I give him 10 gold for the fun of it. I suspect the map would not make any difference, but why do it?

I did not see any English battles as no units came into my lands. A few cavs did attack the last city I captured. So Sumeria is weaker than a baby now. They start the turn with 13 cavs and 114 infantry. Barely more than they had at the end of the last turn.

1766AD:
Darn Republic. WW is getting a bit stiff and no lux is any where I can see to grab, so I make peace. Henry I let off for just a map. I did bust his colony first though.

Liz had wanted to continue the RoP, but that is no longer of use to me as I have direct access now to all the nations. I will let her run through to fight Sumeria, but if any troops come to the homeland, then I will tell her to bounce.

Gil I was easy on, 2 crap towns I think. I wish I could have gotten in 2 more turns. I would have cut that other lung shape land in half and gotten dyes. Well I will expect some demands soon, so maybe we can start on someone else soon.

I see now all are happy again. I traded Flight to Gil for about 700 as the other two had it anyway.

It is too late in the game to let too much time to pass. Final tally:

Liz 36 - not much of gain for all that war.
Henry 2 - still has one colony way out in the sticks.
Alex 21 - basically where he started as well.
Gil 37 - can you say ouch.
Rand 101 - broke the century mark.

1778AD:
Greece had gotten Fission for its free tech and finally started the Project. So I planted a spy so I could know when it was getting close. I will raze the place so it cannot be built. Then I got a msg they try to steal a tech. I was going to run an expose spy, but it failed and Alex declared. So I immediately captured all his nearby workers and a city.

BTW I found out I had incense in a desert tile that was not easy to see in the last town I grabbed or founded, not sure which one. I put down a road, so 5 lux. I am going to grab Athens as that is where they started the Project. They do have about 11 tanks and 50 infantry. Big deal I have more armies than they have tanks.

1788AD:
Razed Athens and now have furs, life will be sweet for Rand. I am surprised to see England is still fighting Sumeria.

1790AD:
I forgot to mention that I abandon the 2 towns I got from Sumeria as they were way off in the tundra.
Greece 16 towns 3 tanks 31 infantry, so they are basically dead.
Rand 111 towns 15 armies.

1798AD:
I tired of no one being able to take out Henry and his two town, so I captured both and he is gone.
England must have had a town razed as they are now at 36.

England 36
Greek 12
Sumeria 37
Rand 120

1800AD:
I am worried a bit about the war Sumeria and England are waging. They have 85 units in my land right now. If I can get Greece down to just the scrub towns, I will join one side. I suspect it will be England I will attack as they are behind me and it is hurting the war.

I had to hold units in towns on the border in case they want to get froggy and leap. Once started on them, I won't have that to deal with. So far no one has start the Project back up. If they do that would change every thing.

1894AD:
Need 3 more towns to have the dyes and remove Greece from one side of the empire. They will then have 3 scrub towns.

England 36
Greece 7
Sumeria 37
Rand 130

1806AD:
Made peace with Alex for 2 towns and abandon both. I have the dyes now. All three have AW, not sure what they figure to do with Marines at this point. They tend to not use them for amphib.

Greek 2 towns
Rand 135

Will found 3 more next turn as settlers could not get on station. Lots of land with no roads and very little with rails in the AI holdings. I have nearly even finished the trees in the tundra. All tiles railed except the recent front.

Will take a slight break and pick a time to jump on England. I need to get rails to new towns so the armies can get in the action. In addition England has a few towns next to the new area. I have 6 MA to land on Liz's island and I think that is all the islands in the game. Still paying 52gpt for units. I am only using 5 metro's to make MA and one making armies. Not getting many shots at leaders.

1808AD:
Well there it is, they made peace on the IBT. I try to spy a bit and Liz went DOW, so off we go. She has maybe 40 units in my land. The good news is that all her tanks are in the open. She does have 10 bombers. I have some mobile sams.

Liz:
Wokers 6
Spear 2
Rifle 11
Infantry 71
Tank 16
Cannon 1
Arty 8
Transport 4
Destroyer 12
Bomber 10
Guerilla 23
Tow 20
Flak 1

Rand:
Workers 44 (111 Slaves
Cav 66 (7x4 in army
Inf 10 (never upgrade,may do it now, lots of cash
Tank 20 (5x4 army
MI 35
Arty 29 ( many other captured ones
Bomber 17
Destroyer 2
Trans 1
Jet 3
Army 16
Mobile Sam 7

Liz will not be a problem, just covering any towns could be an issue. AI loves ships, I am surprise she only has 16.

Got a leader now that I am using some MA's in solo. Killed all the units in the empire. 1 rifle and 19 inf, 2 trans, a DD, 5 bombers, 20 guerilla, 13 tow. Took all the towns behind the Greek area, except one out in the tip.

Going to use the remaining armies to do the main holding. Killed 17 more and took Liz down to 25 towns. Good enough first round.

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[vmxa]

1810AD:
Leader. Leader. Leader. They are so weak they only sent 5 units into the empire. Took out 4 towns, they have 1 bomber left. 158 towns. Have all 8 lux. Running 100% research as I don't need any more cash.

1812AD:
Leader, have 21 armies, 2 not filled. Liz down to 16 town, Rand 165.

1816AD:
Started on Nuc Power at 90% as it is 4 turns anyway. I have Stealth, just for fun. I inspected Gil's run at Project and it nearly 20 turns, so he will never finish it. Liz has not started it.

1818AD:
Liz has 10 towns, the island was captured. Rand 174 towns. I keep London and York. London just because it was down to a town. York has US, but was 32 pop. I sell structures to rush settlers now with recycle. Down to 23 and falling. She has no cities, only tundra towns.

1820AD:
Liz has two towns and one is surrounded. She has 4 units. Rand 186 towns. Sumeria has had a number of units moving in my land. It is not clear if they are going to his towns or he has an attack planned.

I could find out by offering a deal, if the rep is still good. If he says he would never accept such a deal and the deal would normally be good, he is going to attack.

I just prevent him from jumping by putting units into towns as he gets near them. At first I was not able to free up many, now I have lots as the war is nearly over. I started filling the 22nd army.

I have a transport and two stealth bombers working on the far flung town. In 2 turns, I will whack all the Sumeria troops in sight and start razing towns. Alex will wait till I get in his neighborhood. Nealy the last one. I have not checked on the BOMB, but it should be around 12 turn more.

1826AD:
I sunk Alex's Ironclad and captured a settler going through my land. I started an attack on Gil as well, so it is on. No more peace till game is over. I have been at war nearly from the picking up the game. So I guess Republic is not so bad for fighting. I think I did have a short rest, but it was only a few turns. Greece has been at 2 towns with over 2 grand for a long time.

Gil has 25 units in the empire, some are workers.

Gil lost 9 towns. I ran up the count to 195, but I am not going to make any more settlers. Gil lost 53 units and has not quite 100 left. No more Nukes issues as the Project is is gone and never finished.

1828AD:
Liz is gone. I am going to shutdown all production and sell of remaining factories as they finish the current build.
Leader, form 24th. Leader, not going to be able to fill it, unless I use cavs. Leader.

Towns left 20. I had one settler on site so now have 196 towns.

1830AD:
Found some healing MA and now 24th and 26th filled. One empty and one coming from Acad (last one I will build). I will look around for cavs to fill one of them. I may have a few more MA for the other with no movement right now.

11 towns left, I capture 1 for 197.

1832AD:
Sold off the last of the factories and recycle plants. Sold the barracks on those towns as well. Start Robotics all techs are 4 turns. All mines in the core are irrigated now, no building being done anyway.

All 27 armies are filled. Will not use any of the elites I have, not many any way now. I do not recall seeing a single factory in Gil's towns?

End the turn with Greece down to OCC and Gil has 4 towns on the far corner of the tundra. One is surrounded.

1834AD:
Railed up to Greece and end them. They had almost 3k. Railed up to the last area. Bomber sinks a barb, not too often I can do that. Keep last town to get to 200 and thats all folks.



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[Etym]

Etym I don't know if you played this out or even if you will be posting again. I should have noticed you only have 15 post, which often means not coming back. Anyway if you are still working on this game, skip the next few post.

I played the game out and will post the log and a a couple of screenies.

Vxma – sorry about the delay in responding to your excellent commentary. There was a lot there to digest and it took more time than I had anticipated, but it was definitely worth it. I should have posted a note saying what I was doing, though.

Your comment about working at cross-purposes was spot on. Because I’ve always played with multiple victory conditions before (culture, diplo, domination, etc.), I developed certain habits that carried over into this game, like building a bunch of culture and other infrastructure that don’t contribute to victory by conquest. It’s also led me to play a reactive game, generally allowing the AI to initiate wars, even at the cost of ROP rape. I can see that will have to change in a conquest-only environment.

Going through the detailed comments of your second post, I confess that I lost a lot of enthusiasm for this game since there was so much to fix. Still, it was exactly the kind of specific advice I was looking for, and I appreciate your effort. I may go back and play this out, but in the meantime I started another game with the same conditions and, keeping your comments handy for reference, it seems to be going rather better.

I haven’t read your follow on posts in case I take up the battle on this game again, but I do have two questions about what you said. About all those Swiss mercs - I can see that this is too many defenders, so should I just disband them instead of trying to upgrade? One of the habits I’ve acquired is that I almost never disband or sell anything, but I guess that’s unrealistic when every coin counts. And about trading with the AI after reaching Industrial – no more ROPs makes sense since we’re all going to fight each other eventually, but I’m not sure I’m clear on what your advice is regarding other trades. As you seem to acknowledge, it’s rare to have the AI go for a fair trade, so unless I HAVE TO have whatever they’re trading I should just say no?

Thanks again for your effort in analyzing my playing style. Your comments are the most useful I’ve ever found here. Regards . . .

 

[vmxa]

I am glad to hear you are hanging in. One of the things that comes with experience at a given level is you have feel for how much you need to have for defense and offense.

So I try to hold down on my defensive units at non AW games or any level from Emperor down. Above that I may do a few more defensive units as they have a decent or even strong bonus and can crank out units.

I prefer to not upgrade defensive units as money is often tight. I am likely to be running mostly research and lux. If I do have lots of gold, then fine. A few upgrades in border towns maybe, if short on gold.

If I am in Monarchy I will hold as many (obsolete) units as are useful for MP duty. If non MP like Republic, then they are just a drag on the economy. IOW just like structures, they need to be cost effective or critical.

RoP's are a way make friends or move troops. The problem for me is that it becomes hard to know when they are just passing through and when they are getting ready.

Once we are into the IA, I have little interest in friends as I need their land. If they want to fight each other, I can elect to say nothing as they tromp back and forth. I just need to be able to discourage any free wheeling.

Trading is even trickier from my perspective. It is easy if you are a peaceful player. You just make the best deals you can. For me, I want to not trade them anything that helps them advance.

So I tend to trade to the weak nations as they are behind and can make little use of a new tech. They have little to trade also, but if everyone has the tech what ever I get is a bonus.

The trades with the top civs have to done with care. I prefer to not increase the tech pace, but sometimes I need the tech they have.

If they dial me up and want a deal and I do not want to make the deal I will:
a) if I am not anxious to have war, give them 10 gold for nothing as I reject the trade.
b) if they are of no concern and are furious, I just flat reject it. If of concern, but cannot reach me effectively, same thing.

The 10 gold does not really make points, but it does blunt any issues with bartering.