Bomber/fighter cheat

Matrix

CFC Dinosaur
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Free bomber movement
When you have e.g. 10 bombers in one city, you can bombard with 9 of them and with the last one you move with "j", then all bombers move with it... should work with fighters too.


That's what it shows currently on the cheat list. But should it be allowed? You can take great advantage of it, or so I understood. And one can just move all bombers with "g" or "shift-r...

Opinions please!
 
Sounds like this was not intended, but also could be something one could do unintentionally in the game. For example say you have 20 bombers and only need 10 to bomb one city, then you want to move the rest. Would be a PITA to move each one individually just to avoid this. So to disallow it means that it will happen sometimes anyway without any cheating intention.:egypt:

PS re "I have yet to build any aircraft"

I used to build a lot of bombers now i hardly build any. They are so weak to fighter defenses and relatively ineffective against a civ with flight they arent worth bothering with.
 
No, should'nt be allowed.

Everybody playing the gotm should have to move others bombers in the old way if he bombarded before.
 
Since I was one of the people that discovered the effect and submitted it, I should add my two cents worth:

1) tactically, allowing bombers to bomb a target and rebase to another location within their range from the target all in the same turn makes a lot more sense than always returning to the home base. This was frequently done in conflicts in WWII and Korea.

2) Bombers can be a bit worthless in the current engagement rules because of the way Firaxis chose to implement things. The Firaxis guys have it totally screwed up in the priorities sequence because bombing targets all the wrong things. In most cases, we want to bomb the defenders to reduce their hit points prior to an assault. The first priority is reducing defensive improvements (fortress, barracks, walls, etc.) and then taking out defensive units.

I am so sick of getting the (bombing run failed) message that I could just puke. It is not logical to send a wave of 20 or 30 bombers against a pop 15 city and have 3/4's of those bombers fail to hit a target. There are just too many thing that could be hit to come away with a null result. Lets see here, 15 defensless citizens, 7 defensless civilian improvements, 2 military city improvements, 2 defenders, and 2 hunkered down workers --- that gives us 28 potential targets that could get by a bomb and only 2 of those 28 targets have hit points that can sustain damage and not die.

Precision bombing is also worthless (first, it comes so late in the tech tree that you never use it except by curiosity.) Precision bombing targeting the city improvements first, what idiot thought that up. The objective is to kill the military and perhaps the military improvements WITHOUT hitting the civilian improvements.
Precision bombing should target the military units and military improvements first, military units and improvements that are in production should also be fair game to be effected by precision bombing. You should be able to destroy the tank in the factory as one of the hit options with bombing.

Some of this frustration is related to the screwed up implementation of culture flipping and corruption at higher levels with V1.17. If you are in a late game blitz war with modern armor against a culturally adept civilization that only has cavalry, then the ridiculous moves to the sublime. You have to bombard cities into the stoneage in order to bang the population down from up near 15 civilians in order to get it to 6 or under to prevent reversion if you do not want garrison the city with 6 or more tanks after the attack. I had to waste 4 turns killing 11 russian civilians just to capture their last cities in a recent game because I had over 150 armor and mech inf tied up in civilian population control.

I think the bomber group movement thing would give back some value to the bombers that otherwise end up as worthless due to the lack of effectiveness, slow movement, and over vulnerability to fighters (even the worthless, limited range WWII variety).
 
cracker makes a good point about bombers not always returning to their home base after a mission - but bombers can rebase anywhere on the map regardless of how far away.

I don't care either way. There's another patch coming out this week, isn't there. Maybe this won't be a problem after that. I've noticed the j command does some buggy things - besides this and emptying armies. I wouldn't be surprised if that command is tweaked in the new patch.
 
I know this post might belong elsewhere but it follows right on from the screwed up implementation of bombing and bombardment damage priorities.

When we want to pillage improvements, there are two sets of priorities:

There are three levels of improvements to pillage: Civilian (Roads+Mines-or-Irrig), Railroads, and Fortifications.

When we pillage in our own territory, the order or removal should be Fortifications First THEN railroads and civ imps if necessary. Since the AI cannot use the railroads and civ imps in our territory, there is no need to destroy them first. I often find that I have to destroy down to bare terrain just to get rid of a fortress that I no longer wish to defend and then have to rebuild the roads and railroads.

When pillaging in the AI's territory, I thing the primary pillage reason is to disconnect resources, so in that case the order might be appropriate.

I regularly observe the AI pillaging while in the advance, even when there are no resources present. This only cuts off the future flow of reinforcements and garrison troops, so I am not sure the tactical consultant who came up with this implementation for the AIs knew his/her stuff.

This pillage order effects the impact of bombing, because the programmng targets railroads first, then roads and imps, and then finally fortifications. Getting the "bombing run failed" message is really ridiculous when you have a built up square targeted, because something should get destroyed or at least damaged when you have 4 or 5 different things to choose from.

Fortifications should help protect improvements.

I think Firaxis is including the terrain modifications improperly in the bombing success calculations. Bombing an unprotected road in the flatlands ought to destroy that improvement in 9 out of 10 cases. The success rate should be lower in Mountains, Forest and Jungle but it should not require 10 to 15 bombers to level the improvements in a forested square.

Just my thoughts,
 
This seems to clearly be an unintended behavior of the group move command and for that reason alone it should not be used.

It does give you an unfair advantage; you can bomb and move in the same turn but it's hardly a game breaker.

As for the point that bombers don't always return to their home base, that's another issue altogether. Just because a unit does not behave the way we think it should is not a valid reason for exploiting an obvious bug.

If you accidentally do this during a game it easy enough to correct; just don't use the bombers the next turn. When I accidentally unload an army with the 'j' command I just reload it with the same units.
 
I'm with Aeson, never build bombers. I guess this exploit should in theory not be allowed since it seems unintended. But in practice it is hard to control, sounds easy to do by accident, and doesn't seem game altering. (I still wouldn't be building bombers even if this were a published intentional feature :) ) So I think it might as well be allowed.
 
ok I got a stupic question for you all

the J command is supposed to do stack movement.

how do you do it?

I'd have a setler and a warrior in a square to get and I use the J command but only 1 unit moves.
 
Originally posted by Elfi Wolfe
ok I got a stupic question for you all

the J command is supposed to do stack movement.

how do you do it?

I'd have a setler and a warrior in a square to get and I use the J command but only 1 unit moves.

It's work only with units of the same type. For example: as stack of tanks, use the j command and for the mech inf, j commmand again.

I would prefer the way to think it was because it's a pita to move a stack of boats of different type in my carrier's battle group.
 
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