Bonus resource yields and improvements

[fmm]

The +0.5 Housing bonuses on certain tile improvements seem more important than people are giving them credit for. Early housing can be quite challenging, especially when forced to settle in waterless areas.

 

[Magil]

Generally, I preferred it when resources gave huge yields ala Civ IV, as it helped make the terrain feel more valuable and helped to differentiate the value of different city locations. Competition for resources is also a very real and valuable motivator for both war and quick expansion. Civ VI has a different metric for that kind of thing, however, as the value of districts are much more tied to terrain. It may be enough to make it feel like the land is worth fighting for, worth racing to. We'll see.

My general inclination is still such that resources should be a lot more valuable than featureless terrain, however. It's an easy indicator for players to notice (this city site has a lot of resources, therefore I should settle it), and generally more friendly to less experienced players, as they can simply count resource indicators to place down good cities, rather than needing to plan ahead for mountain ranges the value of which is not immediately apparent, etc.. If one thing is better than another, it's a good game design decision to make that fact as readily apparent as possible. The Civ series hasn't always done this well. Resources were traditionally a way to do this, but, well... I'm sure everyone remembers V when at certain points it was frustrating that you couldn't actually put down a normal improvement on a bonus resource (damned sheep blocking terrace farms). VI has at least solved that problem.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I think it is by design, similar fresh water get less and less important as you can be housing from other sources.

Bonus resources are very nice in the early game and can be used to jumpstart a city if you choose to haverest them which you likely will do as the game progress.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The +0.5 Housing bonuses on certain tile improvements seem more important than people are giving them credit for. Early housing can be quite challenging, especially when forced to settle in waterless areas.

ALL tile improvements get those (except mines, quarries, UIs, resorts and military improvements)

 

[fmm]

ALL tile improvements get those (except mines, quarries, UIs, resorts and military improvements)

I don't think lumber mill does, does it? This was specifically in reference to whether it is better to lumber mill a deer vs. camp it.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't think lumber mill does, does it? This was specifically in reference to whether it is better to lumber mill a deer vs. camp it.

You are right, I forgot about the mill.

 

[Cyberian]

Anyone knows if harvesting and removing forest uses a charge?

And removing forest through settling or building building on it no longer gives any hammers right?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Yes both are correct.

In the begining bonus resources are valuable but their value do decrease as you get better technology and civics so they are very useful for early development and you can always harvest them for a quick boost to a new city.

Thus they are always valuable.

Strategic and luxuries are always valuable although some strategic resources do become obsolete.

Civilization VI feels kind like a return to civilization III and earlier in that it greatly favors large empires and cities are likely to feel alot less special then in civilization IV-V as the game lack stuff such as national wonders and % buildings.

Land itself are very valuable in civilization VI and large is pretty much always better in civilization VI.

 

[Seek]

Anyone knows if harvesting and removing forest uses a charge?

And removing forest through settling or building building on it no longer gives any hammers right?

It does use a charge.

Correct, that's why I noted earlier how frustrating it is to see so many wasted hammers (and food, if jungle) when preview players don't chop first. Not only that, placing a district on forest or jungle *increases* the production cost, as well.

 

[qadams]

I noted earlier how frustrating it is to see so many wasted hammers (and food, if jungle) when preview players don't chop first. Not only that, placing a district on forest or jungle *increases* the production cost, as well.

Wow, that's double jeopardy!

 

[Calouste]

It does use a charge.

Correct, that's why I noted earlier how frustrating it is to see so many wasted hammers (and food, if jungle) when preview players don't chop first. Not only that, placing a district on forest or jungle *increases* the production cost, as well.

It depends on how much it is to build a worker and how many charges that worker has. Cost of the worker divided by the number of charges is the cost per chop, and that might or might not be more than the amount of hammers you get from chopping a forest.

 

[Paramecium]

I have to agree with those who have the opinion, that bonus ressources are just that, bonus. It gives a better start for fresh cities and is most valuable in the early game. Later in the game, when the number of possible districts increase, CiVI is kind of a puzzle game, so you will probably have to get rid of those ressources anyway. And yeah, it really hurts me to see too, that a lot of preview lets play dont use the harvest function. Harvesting sth for production is nearly giving a free builder in most cases, just for the use of one charge. And if you place a district somewhere where no bonus ressources is placed, you can get rid of another one to push the construction, same for wonders too.

So you always have to decide, what is better. And a lot of bonus ressources need farms or mines anyway, but I have to agree, that cattles and camps seem to be weaker then those. The same question is with lumbermills on hills and maybe on river hills woods too. They can push your production quite a lot, but im still unsure what will be better, chop the forest and put a mine there? How affects the lumbermill the appeal again? Positive or negative? Will it deny the adjacency bonus for the holy site (I think it was unimproved forest, wasnt it?)

But there are still a lot of questions how usefull it will be to keep the bonus ressources or not. Germany's Hanse will require it, if you are not focusing on getting as much as possible adjacency bonus out of districts and especially of commercial hubs (I think it will be common for Germany plays, that you found cities in that way, that you can place 2 ch and 2 hanses in diamond shape next to each other, probably on rivers, to get the best out of those, if there are ressources too and coasts with harbors, even better...)

And last but not least, I have the feeling, that it is not a good decision to settle next to luxury ressources or strategic ressources. Because on those you can place districts and wonders, which will limit yourself in city planning. F.e. settling on a river next to a luxury ressource will deny you a whole tile where you can place an aquaduct during the midgame, if you need the extra housing (even more for Rome) and it will you deny the extra adjacency bonus of the district too, which is at the beginnig the smallest bonus you can get, but if your city grows and you add more and more districts, it will start to matter.
So I have the feeling, that in the long run, most people will settle directly on luxury ressources, to get the amenities and to have the most space avialable for the latter puzzle game.

But yeah, first we have to have the game in our own hands, before we can say what is really good or bad, only 2 weeks, Im counting ...

 

[Martinus]

I find it a little bit odd that Banking gives +1 gold to quarries, rather than to mines.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The game seems to have several stages, unlike previous games in which you was unlikely to change improvements in civilization VI that may be pretty common.

Pre feudalism: Here both food and housing are a problem. Farms are as valube for their +0.5 housing (4 farms are like an extra granary). Wheat and rice are some of the most valuable tiles as they can give +2 food over base just from resources.

Feudalism: Large farm clusters will dominate this time as farms are still one of the main ways to get housing and they are now much better in terms of food. Many flatland resources may have been removed to make space for farms and production comes from mines and maybe lumbermills who can now be supported in large quntities for most cities. Housing is still a big problem.

Neighbourhood: Neighbourhood solve the housing problem forever while mechanized agriculture solve any food problem you have. Farm area may be reduced now due to they are no longer needed for housing and they are more productive as well. Hills may be used for farms because riverside lumbermills may be better then mines and you can plant forest now.

 

[Seek]

Wow, that's double jeopardy!

On further reflection, the tooltip in the very early builds mentioned that it would cost more to plant in jungle or forest but the current build does not, so it might have been changed. Hope it has, that's just punishing.

It depends on how much it is to build a worker and how many charges that worker has. Cost of the worker divided by the number of charges is the cost per chop, and that might or might not be more than the amount of hammers you get from chopping a forest.

Chopping gives a boat load of hammers; in one game Filthy chopped out Pyramids with two charges, granting another worker and +1 charge for the rest of the game; and workers costs' scale very gently from what I've seen, one chop is essentially one worker, even late mid-game.

Another question is whether it's worth delaying districts by a turn (or more to get the worker in position) to get the chop in.

@Paramecium - Great points to be sure, I can't wait to get my hands on the game as well!

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I think they just have to exist, like they are low density neighbourhoods.

 

[Gali]

One thing that might tip the balance in favor of bonus resources is pantheons. You keep your pantheon the whole game in civ 6 so you can rely on what the bonus will be unlike in civ 5. Bonus resources gain massive bonuses from pantheons. Stone gain 2 faith, pastures gain culture which is insane. Camps can gain in food. copper mines can gain faith.

 

[Gali]

Not if another civ spreads their religion to you. pantheon is tied to religion in civ 5 its separate in civ 6.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

But you also keep your pantheon all game in Civ5

Not if you don't get a religion... if you don't found a religion your pantheon gets wiped out (by the pantheons attached to the other religions)

In civ 6 the pantheon is attached to the civ and not to any religion

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Pantheon is like an extra civ trait in civilization VI and not tied to religion at all.