BOTM 109 (Mao) - Final Spoiler

[Deckhand]

BOTM 109 - Final Spoiler

So how did your game after 1AD go? Did you win? How?

Did you notice all the other civs were also Expansive?

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[georgjorge]

Retired.

Good: Got both Great Lighthouse AND Oracle (Metal Casting). Because I could.

Spoiler :

Bad: as always, naval exploration was sketchy - so I missed trade routes with Pacal for too many turns. Settling - and thus economy - also was very slow (I wonder if that has to do with the "good" point above ). At about 1000AD everyone else is way ahead of me technologically.

I knew before I don't do well on islands maps, and I was right. It was fun but in the end I like games where you have to make do with less cities. On this map, after the first eight or so cities you still haven't settled even half the available space and it gets tiresome to make another Settler, ferry it across to another island, get another workboat over there...so even if it would be possible to squeeze out a win here I don't feel like going over all that, not to mention the logistics of inter-continental war. Can we have OCC next ?

 

[Minou]

Retired in 1000AD as well

After mostly spamming GLH cities in the BC years, the next phase of my plan was to invade Pascal, but it was foiled by Caravels. He had three Caravels sitting on a coastal tile in such a way that I could not invade without fighting them. I'm still not sure if this was by sheer chance or an example of unusually wise tactics by the AI! I had only Trireme/Galleys myself and so I had to wait. Luckily for me João and Pascal got into a war which caused him to pull his naval forces East. Once they sailed off, I launched a Mace/Cho-Ko-Nu invasion and essentially fell one unit short. I used a Spy to cause a city revolt in the capital the turn after landing and knocked out all but one defender. I would have still been able to capture and hold the capital, but the Caravels returned and blocked my reinforcements - I tried suiciding a few ships just to clear the main blocker and land more units, but could barely even scratch it and my land units were stuck on the little double Fish island.

I was forced to sign peace, but did manage to capture the capital again right after it expired - somehow the capital had not a single building in it (not sure how that happened, I know buildings get destroyed as cities change hands but a completely empty 1000AD capital was weird). It was a hollow victory, by this time I had fallen about a dozen techs behind. Part of this was of course the costs of the war but I also overestimated how good State Property + GLH would work for spamming cities. I ended up with about 20 spread all over the uninhabited west islands as well as most of the reachable tiny 1-tile islands seafood resource. For a while each city was pretty much instant profit due to the 4 trade routes and no distance cost. I guess I got a little overconfident that I could rex and grow for the long run, though this plan probably would have actually worked if I had managed to get the Colossus.

This game really felt like it could have gone in a completely different direction if one or two little things changed. Getting to certain techs one turn earlier for trading, meeting an AI a dozen turns earlier by sending boats a different route (or visiting boats finding me), or getting a free religion spread could have been huge. Of course, missing GLH would have ended my game in the BC years.

Thanks again to Deckhand for the map. It was a fun alternate set of rules with the Communism start and I think I may even replay this one since I enjoyed the concept so much (and have lost my Vanilla disk and won't be able to play the next GOTM).

 

[nocho]

My second city was ambushed by a barb archer after it first killed of a spam busting warrior and then quite wounded also got the better of a warrior defending the city. Only after that I noticed we had archery too. Anyhow, wasn't really motivated any more to continue a deity game like that.

 

[georgjorge]

Yes, the start would have been pretty slow (or pretty dangerous) if I hadn't been able to make Archers from the start.

I still don't fully comprehend how I fell so far behind in tech while getting both Oracle and Great Lighthouse and REXing with State Property. I think strategical bulbs to get to Astronomy fast might actually be the key here.

 

[Fippy]

Conquest, after 31 played hours..might be my longest game so far.
Sea maps are special, but i like several features like Amphibious attacks or bombarding with ships

Some pics, i settled this shortly after the 1AD thread.
Saw green borders, with SP you can afford cities without food
Contact with Mehmed was nice, some gold trades and stuff.

Spoiler :

Rifles, Galleons and Frigates was my army, later a couple cannons or Cavs added but very few.

Spoiler :

Surey my last victim was funny, very focused military tech choices..who needs CS or Gunpowder if you can have Physics?

Spoiler :

 

[Fippy]

Hmm, maybe i can help with some tips for such Deity maps.
You guys are right, decisions that look not so important at first glance can have big impact here

Barbs, try fog busting with your early units rather than (land) exploring further.
I did put my warrior a bit north east and 1 Archer straight east, so they complimented each other with tiles covered. Especially warriors are vulernable, but they fogbust well cos they come early & are cheap or free.
If 1 or 2 warriors help "directing" barbs into your (archer) fortified spot by taking away their spawn spots elsewhere, they did their job

Work boats are the best scouts, and sometimes even fog busters.
Around turn ~70 barb galleys can appear on Deity, they are safe until then and often your best early 30h investments + useful for seafood when scouting gets too dangerous or not needed anymore.

Think about directions and AIs, here Tundra showed we are north.
Sending a boat south first, important.

Border pops can remove some trade & passage blocking ocean tiles, it's funny but 1 such tile turned around can change everything.
Work boats are oh so important in finding those possibilities, worked for me with Pacal.

Oracle..not a good wonder on such maps without Marble or at least Ind.
We need galley(s), work boats, barb defense, settlers and we do not have 150h spare.
Actually i will change not good into it's a trap
With GLH (already a big investment) we need no free tech..we need exploring, settling & making map progress. But even without GLH, these map types favor taking control of them rather than binding your Cap with stuff like the Oracle.

Attacking an early possible partner (Pacal) will rarely be as good as trading with him, esp with so much available land.
On Deity, trading is so strong cos AIs are strong. They usually have much to offer. Think about ways of befriending them instead (Pacal gives nice diplo bonuses for shared Monarchy and Reli).

 

[georgjorge]

After giving up on this map due to being so far behind technologically, it is very impressive to see you conquer it with mostly Rifles only!

Thanks for the tips on playing this map. I fully agree that Oracle is a trap here (the trap of "I will build it just because I can"), with State Property + Great Lighthouse the 1.5 early Settlers Oracle represents are just very valuable.

 

[Falabello]

Space victory in 1884AD. It was a total pacific Diplo game. Surviving a War with Pacal (and Mehmed, but he didin't attack...), after forming a Team with the strongest João, I lost the count of elections with about 70% of chances. I wanted Diplo, but no !

So, in the same turn that our (Mao/João) ship landed, the Diplo victory came ... Now, we don't need your vote, Sury!!! It's too late ...

 

[Fippy]

Congrats, nice use of Permanent Alliances

 

[Falabello]

Thanks so much ! BTW, your game was amazing ! It makes it appear that deity is a no-brainer ...

 

[georgjorge]

Congratulations, peaceful Space Victory on Deity is always a big task! Even if Joao helped you out here and there (how did you actually get him to sign the Alliance? Defensive Pact or shared war?).

 

[Falabello]

Thank you! It was by Defensive Pact. After this pact, nobody wanted to attack me, because João was very strong . We stayed in this Pact till the alliance was possible. And so, me and João were the strongest team !!!

 

[Fippy]

It makes it appear that deity is a no-brainer ...

Fortunately, they are never no-brainers ~~
There are few games with a highest diff level that stays challenging, but not unfair, no matter how often you play them. Civ4 achieved that

This gotm was just right imo, some extra help given while also spicing things up with State Property. But nothing "easy".

I hope gotm continues that way for Deity, i do not want "light versions".
I think a highest diff. level should be respected, and hope gotm staff agrees. There are enuf games on other levels every year

 

[neilmeister]

Space victory in 1884AD. It was a total pacific Diplo game. Surviving a War with Pacal (and Mehmed, but he didin't attack...), after forming a Team with the strongest João, I lost the count of elections with about 70% of chances. I wanted Diplo, but no !

So, in the same turn that our (Mao/João) ship landed, the Diplo victory came ... Now, we don't need your vote, Sury!!! It's too late ...

Nice one, I totally targeted space, but could only get an alliance with Pacal.... he was very underwhelming, I swear my tech rate was faster by myself.

Anyway, I landed in 1870, but considering I decided before 1000bc that I was going to space, your date is impressive!

Being Deity, AI always attack at some point. So keeping a close eye on the power graph and of course freaking out when you see the fist is normal (for me anyway).

Interesting game... with defensive pacts available at the start I was really hoping to find Mansa or HC.... but no, I had to make do with the AI next door that I stole techs from all game long. Only managed GLH for wonders

 

[Jovan Kukic]

I made diplomatic victory 1700. I noticed that state property helps expansion due to low city maintenance, especially on other land masses.
Permanent alliances are excellent resources of ca$h, but I don't like when that option is available in GOTM. I always forget how many turns we need to make it, if it is 20, 40 or something else, how much our future allies are needed to like us, etc. Also, I forgot how it counts in victory points. I delayed wars, waiting for Pacal to join permanent alliance. I also had defensive pact with Joao, but some turns but after Pacal joined, I realized that Joao can't join the pact, probably due to turns count reset, which I think happened because Pacal hadn't defensive pact with Joao before making alliance with me. Quite confusing

 

[Deckhand]

confusing indeed

I don't think you can have more than one permanent alliance partner.
Can you create defense pacts when you have a permanent alliance?



I've always said I like playing xOTM for the variety.

 

[Jovan Kukic]

My defensive pact with Portugal hasn't broken when I made permanent alliance with Maya. That permanent alliance also put Maya in my defensive pact with Portugal. They hadn't defensive pact before, so I assumed maybe that's the reason why I couldn't put Portugal in permanent alliance when expected (counting only turns of my defensive pact with Portugal).