BOTM05 Final Spoiler
Reading Requirements
Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 04, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
- You have submitted your entry
Posting Restrictions
- Please do not reveal the location of modern resources (coal and later)
BOTM05 Final Spoiler
- Thread starter DynamicSpirit
- Start date
Reading Requirements
Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 04, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
Posting Restrictions
Space Colony win, 1967 A.D. Ho-hum, I suspect, but Monarch is my regular skill level, so any win is a good one. It's actually been a while since I've finished/won a XotM.
I was going to go for AP, and controlling it was very useful in this game, but after seeing the map and Sitting Bulls position on it (I think I met Sitting Bull in the 1500s, although I had his position from map trading before then), and realizing the only way I was getting a missionary to him was through Joao, I decided space would be easier.
Even though I was frustrated by it, I loved the map with the barrier mountains and boundary channel. I was overjoyed to meet Isabella to the east, I find her to be one of the best AI for an early axe/sword rush while she goes religion-crazy. I managed to rex a bit east and south, getting the important iron to the south. I actually got alpha before Izzy had mining! I rolled over her and built up infrastructure until gunpowder.
Before long, I discovered that my archnemesis HC was the tech leader, even though he only had four or five cities, and that he was Hammys vassal! Hammy was a perfect next target for me, but first things first, I built the AP, and with the help of the holy city of Barcelona (Judaism), I became the AP leader.
That put Hatty and Ragnar, both Jewish states, firmly on my side. After gunpowder, I got the build 8 musketmen event, that gives all the muskets you ever build pinch. I slowed my tech pace slightly while building 30 muskets and cash for upgrades. Hammy was just finishing replaceable parts when I got rifling. I also used a great spy (I think I had four in the game, mostly at low odds while trying to get a great prophet for the Jewish shrine) to build my EP against him, and sent spies and 30 freshly upgraded riflemen with pinch, cg1, drill 1, and two more promotions each through Hammys lands. When the next AP vote came up, Hatty and Ragnar joined me in the fight against Hammy/HC. I capitulated Hammy when he was down to two cities that were on the other side of Monty and Joao.
With HC, who hadnt taken the military route, it was just a race between Ragnar and me on who would get more of his cities. HC never got to capitulate, which was unfortunate, because I wanted some of his techs!
Much peace ensued after that war. I started down the AP path until I identified the map issue. I then geared up for space. Joao voluntary vassalized to me. Because of all the extra EPs from the Great Spies, I got to watch behaviors of different leaders, which was interesting. Monty attacked and capitulated Brennus right through Mao, and then set his sights on a cultural victory
. He was a little late though. Investigating his cities, the turns to legendary were all between 100 and 150 with less than 200 turns left in the game. There was no way he was getting there before I got to space, even with Great Artists. As I cottaged and tech stole my way to the tech lead (Sitting Bull had techs on me for the longest time, because he was beelining so strongly, he had steam power before philosophy!), my power dropped considerably as my still decent standing army grew outdated.
So Monty the forever insane, in the middle of his culture run, declares war on me. His army (and his vassal Brennus) is possibly the only army in the world at the same tech level as mine, but I have the techs to upgrade mine. Great decision, Monty. So I built a couple tanks, upgraded riflemen to infantry, and decimated his cavalry. Both Ragnar and Mao joined me in the fight against Monty, and I took two of his cities, including one of his culture cities. Mao absolutely rolled over him, and Monty eventually capitulated to Mao, trapping my entire army inside Teotihuacan, with no way out due to the cultural pressure of Tenochtitlan for the rest of the game. Fortunately I never needed my army again, because I would have had to declare on Monty/Mao just to get it out.
The ending was as youd expect, teching through the tree with no help, as by this point, even Sitting Bull was left far behind, with my engine builds in Madrid (which had the Moai statues, who would have thought that on this map
), and Lish, my ironworks city near the iron south of the capital. Both engine builds were about 9 turns with chops/starvation micromanaging.
This was a really fun map to play. Thanks DS!
I was going to go for AP, and controlling it was very useful in this game, but after seeing the map and Sitting Bulls position on it (I think I met Sitting Bull in the 1500s, although I had his position from map trading before then), and realizing the only way I was getting a missionary to him was through Joao, I decided space would be easier.
Even though I was frustrated by it, I loved the map with the barrier mountains and boundary channel. I was overjoyed to meet Isabella to the east, I find her to be one of the best AI for an early axe/sword rush while she goes religion-crazy. I managed to rex a bit east and south, getting the important iron to the south. I actually got alpha before Izzy had mining! I rolled over her and built up infrastructure until gunpowder.
Before long, I discovered that my archnemesis HC was the tech leader, even though he only had four or five cities, and that he was Hammys vassal! Hammy was a perfect next target for me, but first things first, I built the AP, and with the help of the holy city of Barcelona (Judaism), I became the AP leader.
That put Hatty and Ragnar, both Jewish states, firmly on my side. After gunpowder, I got the build 8 musketmen event, that gives all the muskets you ever build pinch. I slowed my tech pace slightly while building 30 muskets and cash for upgrades. Hammy was just finishing replaceable parts when I got rifling. I also used a great spy (I think I had four in the game, mostly at low odds while trying to get a great prophet for the Jewish shrine) to build my EP against him, and sent spies and 30 freshly upgraded riflemen with pinch, cg1, drill 1, and two more promotions each through Hammys lands. When the next AP vote came up, Hatty and Ragnar joined me in the fight against Hammy/HC. I capitulated Hammy when he was down to two cities that were on the other side of Monty and Joao.
With HC, who hadnt taken the military route, it was just a race between Ragnar and me on who would get more of his cities. HC never got to capitulate, which was unfortunate, because I wanted some of his techs!
Much peace ensued after that war. I started down the AP path until I identified the map issue. I then geared up for space. Joao voluntary vassalized to me. Because of all the extra EPs from the Great Spies, I got to watch behaviors of different leaders, which was interesting. Monty attacked and capitulated Brennus right through Mao, and then set his sights on a cultural victory
. He was a little late though. Investigating his cities, the turns to legendary were all between 100 and 150 with less than 200 turns left in the game. There was no way he was getting there before I got to space, even with Great Artists. As I cottaged and tech stole my way to the tech lead (Sitting Bull had techs on me for the longest time, because he was beelining so strongly, he had steam power before philosophy!), my power dropped considerably as my still decent standing army grew outdated.So Monty the forever insane, in the middle of his culture run, declares war on me. His army (and his vassal Brennus) is possibly the only army in the world at the same tech level as mine, but I have the techs to upgrade mine. Great decision, Monty. So I built a couple tanks, upgraded riflemen to infantry, and decimated his cavalry. Both Ragnar and Mao joined me in the fight against Monty, and I took two of his cities, including one of his culture cities. Mao absolutely rolled over him, and Monty eventually capitulated to Mao, trapping my entire army inside Teotihuacan, with no way out due to the cultural pressure of Tenochtitlan for the rest of the game. Fortunately I never needed my army again, because I would have had to declare on Monty/Mao just to get it out.
The ending was as youd expect, teching through the tree with no help, as by this point, even Sitting Bull was left far behind, with my engine builds in Madrid (which had the Moai statues, who would have thought that on this map
), and Lish, my ironworks city near the iron south of the capital. Both engine builds were about 9 turns with chops/starvation micromanaging.This was a really fun map to play. Thanks DS!
To summarize from the first spoiler, I only settled 3 of my own cities (capitol and two others). By 500 ad I had secured 4 spanish cities, 3 babylon cities, and 3 of my own, with the ridiculous amount of food on the map and ziggarats, my economy was able to survive relatively easily.
I turned madrid into my heroic epic city, and the city above the babylon capitol as my gp farm, everything else I turned into a massive cottage spam. Some time around 1000 ad, I attacked portugual, who at the time was the only other person even remotely close to me in score. It was really a rather sad war, my forces were far larger than they needed to be considering the ridiculous amount of lucky victories I had.
I vassalized him leaving him 4 or 5 cities in the north that didn't look too attractive to take on were on hills with a lot of longbows. I then proceeded to pillage every single cottage in his territory, and turned the 5 cities of his that id captured into a massive factory of workshops and farms. I also timed the end of this war almost perfectly with the construction of the hagia sophia (a rare build for me but seemed fairly useful).
After this war, the incans decided they wanted to become my vassal, so I had a nice little protective barrier to the south.
Around 1400 or 1500 ad, I had my first golden age and used it to switch quickly to theoly / nationalism for 6 turns, pumping out 18 musketmen. Also during this time I upgraded my hordes of knights into curiasars. I did however, still have a ton of fully upgraded trebs and macemen which would prove fairly useless in the coming conflicts.
Around 1600 ad, I invaded the chinese in an industrial blitzkreig involving at least 40 or so cuirasers coming from every direction. During this time of course monty decides to declare war on me. Using my macemen and trebs that were too slow for the chinese campaign, I counter attacked and took a fair amount of his cities, tho with tremendous casualities, and I probably shouldve just stayed on the defensive until I got rifling which was a few turns away. Anyway, the Chinese refused to surrender so they were wiped out, then my (at this point calvary) hordes moved onto the Aztecs and vassalized them around 10 more turns later.
So this is where my game stands currently, Unfortunately I'm feeling lazy and havnt finished it up. But the year is 1700 and I need to finish mopping up the rest of the civs out there, Im looking to hopefully have victory by 1800.
I definately probably couldve been faster, but I was worried about not being able to raze cities so held back somewhat.
I turned madrid into my heroic epic city, and the city above the babylon capitol as my gp farm, everything else I turned into a massive cottage spam. Some time around 1000 ad, I attacked portugual, who at the time was the only other person even remotely close to me in score. It was really a rather sad war, my forces were far larger than they needed to be considering the ridiculous amount of lucky victories I had.
I vassalized him leaving him 4 or 5 cities in the north that didn't look too attractive to take on were on hills with a lot of longbows. I then proceeded to pillage every single cottage in his territory, and turned the 5 cities of his that id captured into a massive factory of workshops and farms. I also timed the end of this war almost perfectly with the construction of the hagia sophia (a rare build for me but seemed fairly useful).
After this war, the incans decided they wanted to become my vassal, so I had a nice little protective barrier to the south.
Around 1400 or 1500 ad, I had my first golden age and used it to switch quickly to theoly / nationalism for 6 turns, pumping out 18 musketmen. Also during this time I upgraded my hordes of knights into curiasars. I did however, still have a ton of fully upgraded trebs and macemen which would prove fairly useless in the coming conflicts.
Around 1600 ad, I invaded the chinese in an industrial blitzkreig involving at least 40 or so cuirasers coming from every direction. During this time of course monty decides to declare war on me. Using my macemen and trebs that were too slow for the chinese campaign, I counter attacked and took a fair amount of his cities, tho with tremendous casualities, and I probably shouldve just stayed on the defensive until I got rifling which was a few turns away. Anyway, the Chinese refused to surrender so they were wiped out, then my (at this point calvary) hordes moved onto the Aztecs and vassalized them around 10 more turns later.
So this is where my game stands currently, Unfortunately I'm feeling lazy and havnt finished it up. But the year is 1700 and I need to finish mopping up the rest of the civs out there, Im looking to hopefully have victory by 1800.
I definately probably couldve been faster, but I was worried about not being able to raze cities so held back somewhat.
I think I'll just cry over this game 
Planned to take some cities early with Vultures and then play a peaceful game for culture victory. Started really strong, was leading all found civs, not having Copper close to start hurt a bit, but having it on a Jungle hurt even more because I went for Iron Working too late (had a different tech tree in mind). When I finally had an army together I got scared of Hammarabi's Bow's so went after Isabella, first city fell fine but greedy me went for a more key city with tasty resources. Took me too long and she bites back, after way to long she keeps her cities and I keep mine. The war took to much of my resources and for the rest of the game I was in the last 20% power.
From here on in the game just went bad to worse, couldn't get any positive influences with any of the "good" civs and wasn't able to choose my wars afterwards... was at war with over half the civs at some point in the game... managed to protect my borders pretty well, I had managed to push into 2 each of Isabella and Hammar's cities at one point, but between AP resolutions and getting my butt kicked I was only ever able to hold onto the 1 of Isabella's (Hammar had Riflemen, who I did manage to stand up against considerably well with 2+3 promoted Muskets, but then the artillery, and my city walls wept blood!)... That Spanish hoodlum sweeped in and reclaimed *my* shiny new city with a huge army, then had Hammar, Huayna and Hatsheput all declare war and within a dozen turns my cities were all gone.
The year was 1909 and I will try to forget this game as quickly as possible (although will be hard, first ever submitted GOTM). If I did my usual little bit of reloading it would have been a completely different story... and I could have sworn Isabella's chariots were cheating, they just seemed to walk all over my units even when I had clear advantage
War has never been my strong point, but I figured with Vultures there would have been good early advantage against Archer cities but it was not to be.
Planned to take some cities early with Vultures and then play a peaceful game for culture victory. Started really strong, was leading all found civs, not having Copper close to start hurt a bit, but having it on a Jungle hurt even more because I went for Iron Working too late (had a different tech tree in mind). When I finally had an army together I got scared of Hammarabi's Bow's so went after Isabella, first city fell fine but greedy me went for a more key city with tasty resources. Took me too long and she bites back, after way to long she keeps her cities and I keep mine. The war took to much of my resources and for the rest of the game I was in the last 20% power.
From here on in the game just went bad to worse, couldn't get any positive influences with any of the "good" civs and wasn't able to choose my wars afterwards... was at war with over half the civs at some point in the game... managed to protect my borders pretty well, I had managed to push into 2 each of Isabella and Hammar's cities at one point, but between AP resolutions and getting my butt kicked I was only ever able to hold onto the 1 of Isabella's (Hammar had Riflemen, who I did manage to stand up against considerably well with 2+3 promoted Muskets, but then the artillery, and my city walls wept blood!)... That Spanish hoodlum sweeped in and reclaimed *my* shiny new city with a huge army, then had Hammar, Huayna and Hatsheput all declare war and within a dozen turns my cities were all gone.
The year was 1909 and I will try to forget this game as quickly as possible (although will be hard, first ever submitted GOTM). If I did my usual little bit of reloading it would have been a completely different story... and I could have sworn Isabella's chariots were cheating, they just seemed to walk all over my units even when I had clear advantage
War has never been my strong point, but I figured with Vultures there would have been good early advantage against Archer cities but it was not to be.
I think I'll just cry over this game
Planned to take some cities early with Vultures and then play a peaceful game for culture victory. Started really strong, was leading all found civs, not having Copper close to start hurt a bit, but having it on a Jungle hurt even more because I went for Iron Working too late (had a different tech tree in mind).
Maybe mathematics was on your tech tree. Did you know you can take it with maths and a fort tile improvement?
You mean you can build a fort on a Jungle and it will remove the Jungle without Iron Working ? I have not heard this before!
Solon70
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2008
- Messages
- 249
This was a very frustrating game for me, which I thought for sure was going to be my first win on Monarch, and ended up with Monty stealing a cultural win in 1985 AD.
I took out Hammurabi in the BC years - attacked him right after he switched out of a popular religion, so no diplomatic hit with anyone.
I consolidated his cities and attacked Isabella next. Again, by waiting for the right moment, I managed to wipe her out completely with no diplomatic repercussions. Things were going great.
I figured Joao would be next. I made mincemeat out of his first few cities, he offered to capitulate but I figured I'd rather eliminate him so my cities didn't have to deal with the cultural issue. Probably a bad decision. Sure enough, on the next turn he vassalized to someone else and the game forced me to declare peace.
This is where I sort of lost the thread of the game. I should have picked a victory condition and went with it, but instead I wound up playing a sort of half-space half-domination game and spinning my wheels. I wasted a bunch of turns eliminating Egypt, which not only was a small civ with no threat to anyone, but the cities were way out of place for me to consolidate them with my empire. I might as well have just gifted them over to Ragnar.
Then I got myself caught up declaring war on Mao when I really hadn't taken enough time to gear up for it. I managed to grab Shanghai from him when the screen shook not once but twice. Not only had Mao dropped a tactical nuke on his own territory to decimate my stack, but his ally Brennus had nuked my capital! Good times. That was pretty much the end of the attack.
I was still in decent shape for the space race, but I'd squandered plenty of time with my half-hearted war efforts. I was about 15-20 turns from launching when, horror of horrors, I saw one of Monty's cities turn legendary. I had been so proud of myself for keeping him as my ally throughout the game, using him to attack other civs, and now here he was. There was absolutely nothing I could do and just a couple turns later he claimed the cultural win. Grrrrr!
I did learn a lot from this game but the ending was sooooo frustrating...
I took out Hammurabi in the BC years - attacked him right after he switched out of a popular religion, so no diplomatic hit with anyone.
I consolidated his cities and attacked Isabella next. Again, by waiting for the right moment, I managed to wipe her out completely with no diplomatic repercussions. Things were going great.
I figured Joao would be next. I made mincemeat out of his first few cities, he offered to capitulate but I figured I'd rather eliminate him so my cities didn't have to deal with the cultural issue. Probably a bad decision. Sure enough, on the next turn he vassalized to someone else and the game forced me to declare peace.
This is where I sort of lost the thread of the game. I should have picked a victory condition and went with it, but instead I wound up playing a sort of half-space half-domination game and spinning my wheels. I wasted a bunch of turns eliminating Egypt, which not only was a small civ with no threat to anyone, but the cities were way out of place for me to consolidate them with my empire. I might as well have just gifted them over to Ragnar.
Then I got myself caught up declaring war on Mao when I really hadn't taken enough time to gear up for it. I managed to grab Shanghai from him when the screen shook not once but twice. Not only had Mao dropped a tactical nuke on his own territory to decimate my stack, but his ally Brennus had nuked my capital! Good times. That was pretty much the end of the attack.
I was still in decent shape for the space race, but I'd squandered plenty of time with my half-hearted war efforts. I was about 15-20 turns from launching when, horror of horrors, I saw one of Monty's cities turn legendary. I had been so proud of myself for keeping him as my ally throughout the game, using him to attack other civs, and now here he was. There was absolutely nothing I could do and just a couple turns later he claimed the cultural win. Grrrrr!
I did learn a lot from this game but the ending was sooooo frustrating...
Well.. at 500AD ´.see previous spoiler. evrything going y way. Jaoa Portugal is fallen under my Vultures, except for one or two cities. I start building ziggs to get my economy up and going. While I do that, Mao had other plans, but I did not find out untill he shows up on my door with a 20 stack mostly cats and DOW. I fight him good for a few turns but he just too much. Damn. n Whole rest of game wasted fighting him for those crappy Portugal cities )Portugal is his vassal now. Then while everything heading south to get it all back, Eliz DOW me in the north.
FAN! Now I am down to 3 cities after MAO take my capitol... A weaker man would retire. NOT me. I fight to the death, but now culture flipping and AP takes toll on both Mao and Liz. By end of game, I have all my 500AD empire back, due to flipping )those spys were useful for sometnhing at least. AP votes gave me back 3 cities as well.
But afyter about 800AD I had no thoughts of winning, only of surviveing. I survived better than I thought possible, but conquest defeat was pretty scary for a while.
Liz gets to space in 1992.
But I survive as big as ever. Replay thoughts... too many wonders, not enough infrastructure. But Mao caught me because of the no raze rule... I was trying to rebuild economy after war when he screwed me. Next time I just cave in to his petty demands rather than tell him to piss off. Bad diplo cost me game as much as anything else.
FAN! Now I am down to 3 cities after MAO take my capitol... A weaker man would retire. NOT me. I fight to the death, but now culture flipping and AP takes toll on both Mao and Liz. By end of game, I have all my 500AD empire back, due to flipping )those spys were useful for sometnhing at least. AP votes gave me back 3 cities as well.
But afyter about 800AD I had no thoughts of winning, only of surviveing. I survived better than I thought possible, but conquest defeat was pretty scary for a while.
Liz gets to space in 1992.
But I survive as big as ever. Replay thoughts... too many wonders, not enough infrastructure. But Mao caught me because of the no raze rule... I was trying to rebuild economy after war when he screwed me. Next time I just cave in to his petty demands rather than tell him to piss off. Bad diplo cost me game as much as anything else.
raistlin1967
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2008
- Messages
- 32
Also very frustrating game. Thought I for sure had my first BOTM victory. Got off to horrible start, only able to found 4 cities and didn't feel strong enough to ever go on offensive. I tried for AP, pumping out Confucian monks. Probably only thing that saved me as I got Izzy, Jo, and Hammie on my side early and they kept me protected the whole game. Managed to stay very close to the tech lead all the way to the finish and was really strong in culture. I wonder now if I could have gotten that 3rd city to Legend if I had given up on tech and used the culture slider. Anyways, down to the wire with Jo on spaceship, I had 3 turns left for my 2nd engine when he puts 1 on and launches. I haven't played enough to know the launch times so I thought if I could get there with 1 engine in 12 turns, surely I could get there faster with 2 engines. Shocked to find the arrival time go to only 10 turns, and thus Space Race loss to Jo while only 2 turns away myelf. Live and learn. Still, was very pleased to be so close to winning with so little to work with for most of the game.
mabraham
Deity
No, the fort just provides resource connectivity and defensive bonus, not jungle removal or tile bonus. It's a BtS feature.
mabraham
Deity
Challenger, Domination 1916AD
I played a number of practice games to get used to the features of this game. City-flipping post conquest requires you to plan the end of your wars carefully. Obviously you can just war to eliminate them completely, but when accepting a vassal needs you to consider whether culture pressure will cost you some of your hard-earned cities. Against an AI who has close-packed their cities, a late non-elimination war is crazy. However an AI who has left some space between their cities makes an acceptable vassal once you've taken down their big culture cities, e.g. capitals.
I planned to beeline Iron Working, Alphabet, Priesthood and then Engineering, open with a Vulture rush, consolidate with running Ziggurats and work on an espionage economy midgame and eliminate whoever looked like the best prospect at the time.
So how did it work?
I found Hammurabi quickly and decided that his river needed to be mine. Bowman are not so scary - remember the Vultures are already at +20% with respect to Bowman, by comparison with normal Axemen. I packed some spearmen as well. By the time I got my copper-in-jungle city hooked up with Iron Working, Hammurabi had 4+ cities out. I took the three on the river, but gave up on his new ones in the central desert... they were not worthwhile, and not going to put culture pressure on Babylon. Meantime, Hammy had gotten Izzy to help with his war. Annoyingly, she hadn't founded any religion at all, but her Pyramids-Gardens-Mausoleum-Oracle capital city was very worthwhile. I turned it into a spy GP farm. I also got out a GE and GM before this, as I was planning a late-game Mining Inc and Cereal Mills if needed.
I killed Izzy by 1250AD, and shortly moved onto Ragnar. Meantime Mao had made Christianity the AP religion, so I had work to do to spam that around for the hammers and votes. By the late game I was winning the elections and able to influence who was warring with me. I picked up Hattie as a voluntary vassal, and inherited her three wars, which was ugly, but quite survivable. Later on Brennus vassalized himself to Mao when I was beating him up, which forced me to peace, so there must be some mechanism there which I don't understand. I was sharpening my spears (I mean Infantry and Cannons) for war against HC when Mao's block declared on the Joao-Hammy-Monty block. So I killed Hammy and Monty and vassalized Joao. Meantime Sitting Bull had built both Mining Inc and Creative Constructions. The former was annoying because I wanted it, and because he'd never get much chance to spread it around. The latter was just stupid, since those corporations compete. Mao had him covered for a culture victory, so it was pointless for SB. I did end up founding Cereal Mills, but I'd only got it to about half my cities before I dominated.
I found the espionage economy quite worthwhile. Some tricks were sending spies to HC's city on the south end of Izzy's lake, moving my capital to Akkad (on the end of Hammy's river, so close to this HC city), and manipulating HC's religion as needed. Spies on boats in cities don't get caught while accruing their -50% stationary bonus, and pre-Engineering they can sometimes get there faster too. So I stole a pile of techs there, racking up -5 espionage diplomatic penalties for the failures. I was unconvinced that the espionage failure rate was what the mission says it would be... I lost a lot of 75% chances... Lacking stone hurt because it was no longer so favourable to build walls and castles to get the free EP - I just cottaged up and used the slider. By the endgame I had more EPs than god and couldn't be bothered spying any more. I used quite a few city revolt missions to neutralize Izzy's culture defense. This is a quite good strategy to increase the length of time Vultures are useful before your catapults arrive, and you want to have done some EP spending to make your later tech-steal missions against someone else cheaper.
The challenger nerf (losing silver, pigs and something) really didn't hurt much. I settled in place and planned that city to be a watermill-farm-HE city and stuck with it. Just after I built my first mine, the tin event came up to give me +2
in that plot, which was pretty huge for the rest of the game. Still, I never got silver until I took down Ragnar, so that's a big hit really.
I played a number of practice games to get used to the features of this game. City-flipping post conquest requires you to plan the end of your wars carefully. Obviously you can just war to eliminate them completely, but when accepting a vassal needs you to consider whether culture pressure will cost you some of your hard-earned cities. Against an AI who has close-packed their cities, a late non-elimination war is crazy. However an AI who has left some space between their cities makes an acceptable vassal once you've taken down their big culture cities, e.g. capitals.
I planned to beeline Iron Working, Alphabet, Priesthood and then Engineering, open with a Vulture rush, consolidate with running Ziggurats and work on an espionage economy midgame and eliminate whoever looked like the best prospect at the time.
So how did it work?
I found Hammurabi quickly and decided that his river needed to be mine. Bowman are not so scary - remember the Vultures are already at +20% with respect to Bowman, by comparison with normal Axemen. I packed some spearmen as well. By the time I got my copper-in-jungle city hooked up with Iron Working, Hammurabi had 4+ cities out. I took the three on the river, but gave up on his new ones in the central desert... they were not worthwhile, and not going to put culture pressure on Babylon. Meantime, Hammy had gotten Izzy to help with his war. Annoyingly, she hadn't founded any religion at all, but her Pyramids-Gardens-Mausoleum-Oracle capital city was very worthwhile. I turned it into a spy GP farm. I also got out a GE and GM before this, as I was planning a late-game Mining Inc and Cereal Mills if needed.
I killed Izzy by 1250AD, and shortly moved onto Ragnar. Meantime Mao had made Christianity the AP religion, so I had work to do to spam that around for the hammers and votes. By the late game I was winning the elections and able to influence who was warring with me. I picked up Hattie as a voluntary vassal, and inherited her three wars, which was ugly, but quite survivable. Later on Brennus vassalized himself to Mao when I was beating him up, which forced me to peace, so there must be some mechanism there which I don't understand. I was sharpening my spears (I mean Infantry and Cannons) for war against HC when Mao's block declared on the Joao-Hammy-Monty block. So I killed Hammy and Monty and vassalized Joao. Meantime Sitting Bull had built both Mining Inc and Creative Constructions. The former was annoying because I wanted it, and because he'd never get much chance to spread it around. The latter was just stupid, since those corporations compete. Mao had him covered for a culture victory, so it was pointless for SB. I did end up founding Cereal Mills, but I'd only got it to about half my cities before I dominated.
I found the espionage economy quite worthwhile. Some tricks were sending spies to HC's city on the south end of Izzy's lake, moving my capital to Akkad (on the end of Hammy's river, so close to this HC city), and manipulating HC's religion as needed. Spies on boats in cities don't get caught while accruing their -50% stationary bonus, and pre-Engineering they can sometimes get there faster too. So I stole a pile of techs there, racking up -5 espionage diplomatic penalties for the failures. I was unconvinced that the espionage failure rate was what the mission says it would be... I lost a lot of 75% chances... Lacking stone hurt because it was no longer so favourable to build walls and castles to get the free EP - I just cottaged up and used the slider. By the endgame I had more EPs than god and couldn't be bothered spying any more. I used quite a few city revolt missions to neutralize Izzy's culture defense. This is a quite good strategy to increase the length of time Vultures are useful before your catapults arrive, and you want to have done some EP spending to make your later tech-steal missions against someone else cheaper.
The challenger nerf (losing silver, pigs and something) really didn't hurt much. I settled in place and planned that city to be a watermill-farm-HE city and stuck with it. Just after I built my first mine, the tin event came up to give me +2
in that plot, which was pretty huge for the rest of the game. Still, I never got silver until I took down Ragnar, so that's a big hit really.My first religious victory ever, though rather late, in 1905 AD. And I didn't ever found a religion or even build the AP... yay!
Like probably most people here, I started out planning a Vulture rush, and as Hammurabi's Bowmen seemed quite capable of defending themselves, I opted for taking out Isabella to gain some territory. Soon Madrid became my GP farm, and Isabella's last city, Barcelona (east of Madrid), fell in 125AD giving me the Jewish holy city.
Ragnar was next, he was quite strong though but in a joint effort with Hatshepsut we brought him down to 3 or 4 cities before he capitulated to her. About that time, Hammurabi built the AP, in which I would reside henceforth for the entire rest of the game. Thanks Hammu!
Spreading Judaism around the world wasn't easy though. Luckily our one true faith had found followers in a Native American city by itself, which was a blessing as I would have found it extremely difficult to get our missionaries to his territory. Hatty, Ragnar and Hammu had Judaism as state religion, with Hatty my most faithful ally throughout the game due to our common war on Ragnar. Hammu would be my rival in elections, as he had built the AP and was second in score (after myself). I quickly spread our holy religion to Joao, Brennus, and Huayna Capac, but Mao was running Theocracy and Monty wouldn't ever let our missionaries into his borders.
Hence, I decided to go for space as an alternative. However, while I was already implementing the Apollo program in Assyrian (my almost ridiculously hammer-rich barb-founded production powerhouse in the very north-east corner of the map), Joao foolishly decided to DOW me. His attacking stack was easily beaten off by my Cavalry and my counter-attack led me right through Hammurabi's territory to overrun Portugal's cities in no time. This gave us a common border with China and the Aztecs. A couple of turns before, Monty had decided to offer me open borders for whatever reason. Certainly none of his units were ever seen in my land during all the game. However, our missionaries quickly spread the faith to Montezuma's lands, leaving only China witout a seat in the AP.
So, I spread Judaism to a border city between what was formerly Portugal and China, moved out all my units, DOWed on Mao and waited for two turns (yes, it took him 2 turns to conquer an unprotected city). Sure enough, the conditions for religious victory votes were now fulfilled. I still needed enough votes though...
Failed the first vote in the late 1800s. Hatty and Sitting Bull voted for me, the others for Hammu or abstained. After spamming Judaism to each and every one of my and Hatty's cities, growing smaller cities with Sid's Sushi and even taking one of Monty's to increase my pop, I just barely made it over the limit (again, with Hatty's and Sitting Bull's support) in 1905...
Like probably most people here, I started out planning a Vulture rush, and as Hammurabi's Bowmen seemed quite capable of defending themselves, I opted for taking out Isabella to gain some territory. Soon Madrid became my GP farm, and Isabella's last city, Barcelona (east of Madrid), fell in 125AD giving me the Jewish holy city.
Ragnar was next, he was quite strong though but in a joint effort with Hatshepsut we brought him down to 3 or 4 cities before he capitulated to her. About that time, Hammurabi built the AP, in which I would reside henceforth for the entire rest of the game. Thanks Hammu!
Spreading Judaism around the world wasn't easy though. Luckily our one true faith had found followers in a Native American city by itself, which was a blessing as I would have found it extremely difficult to get our missionaries to his territory. Hatty, Ragnar and Hammu had Judaism as state religion, with Hatty my most faithful ally throughout the game due to our common war on Ragnar. Hammu would be my rival in elections, as he had built the AP and was second in score (after myself). I quickly spread our holy religion to Joao, Brennus, and Huayna Capac, but Mao was running Theocracy and Monty wouldn't ever let our missionaries into his borders.
Hence, I decided to go for space as an alternative. However, while I was already implementing the Apollo program in Assyrian (my almost ridiculously hammer-rich barb-founded production powerhouse in the very north-east corner of the map), Joao foolishly decided to DOW me. His attacking stack was easily beaten off by my Cavalry and my counter-attack led me right through Hammurabi's territory to overrun Portugal's cities in no time. This gave us a common border with China and the Aztecs. A couple of turns before, Monty had decided to offer me open borders for whatever reason. Certainly none of his units were ever seen in my land during all the game. However, our missionaries quickly spread the faith to Montezuma's lands, leaving only China witout a seat in the AP.
So, I spread Judaism to a border city between what was formerly Portugal and China, moved out all my units, DOWed on Mao and waited for two turns (yes, it took him 2 turns to conquer an unprotected city
). Sure enough, the conditions for religious victory votes were now fulfilled. I still needed enough votes though...Failed the first vote in the late 1800s. Hatty and Sitting Bull voted for me, the others for Hammu or abstained. After spamming Judaism to each and every one of my and Hatty's cities, growing smaller cities with Sid's Sushi and even taking one of Monty's to increase my pop, I just barely made it over the limit (again, with Hatty's and Sitting Bull's support) in 1905...
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
This was my first time playing a GOTM. I tried the Contender level, and probably would have been more comfortable playing adventurer. I was also hampered by my infamilarity with BTS since I have not played a BTS game in several months while I was enjoying some of the mods in the community (especially FfH and TAM).
I was able to take out Isabela relatively early with a Vulture rush. Her last couple of cities lasted longer than I wanted, but having Madrid the surrounding area put the nail in her coffin. Unfortunately, by the time I finished her off, most of the other players on the map had out teched me by a good margin. I decided to go for a cultural victory since I had three cities that were well suited to the task. I ended up losing in 2009 when the space ship was launched by another player (I don't remember who).
After being handled by the computer, I decided to try the Adventurer level. The worker came in really handy allowing me to expand much faster. I decided to take out Hamurabi first and then go after Isabela. About the time that I finished of the Babalonians, the Incas asked to become my vassal. I had pretty good relations with the other civs...or so I thought. I was first backstabbed by Ragnar who had the Egyptians as his vassal. Just when that war started to turn in my favor, I was attacked on the other side by Mao who had the Aztecs under his thumb. The only good thing to come out of the war was that I destroyed Ragnar enough to get the Egyptians to throw off their vassal chains and become independent again. I eventually got peace through the UN and worked my way to a cultural victory in 2006. I was able to out tech my opponents, and probably could have made a good push with my modern armor and mech infantry, but the game was already dragging out...it seemed like a hollow victory being my second run through...and I had already submitted my contender loss.
I have since downloaded the first four GOTM for BTS and intend to get some more practice before #6 is released.
I was able to take out Isabela relatively early with a Vulture rush. Her last couple of cities lasted longer than I wanted, but having Madrid the surrounding area put the nail in her coffin. Unfortunately, by the time I finished her off, most of the other players on the map had out teched me by a good margin. I decided to go for a cultural victory since I had three cities that were well suited to the task. I ended up losing in 2009 when the space ship was launched by another player (I don't remember who).
After being handled by the computer, I decided to try the Adventurer level. The worker came in really handy allowing me to expand much faster. I decided to take out Hamurabi first and then go after Isabela. About the time that I finished of the Babalonians, the Incas asked to become my vassal. I had pretty good relations with the other civs...or so I thought. I was first backstabbed by Ragnar who had the Egyptians as his vassal. Just when that war started to turn in my favor, I was attacked on the other side by Mao who had the Aztecs under his thumb. The only good thing to come out of the war was that I destroyed Ragnar enough to get the Egyptians to throw off their vassal chains and become independent again. I eventually got peace through the UN and worked my way to a cultural victory in 2006. I was able to out tech my opponents, and probably could have made a good push with my modern armor and mech infantry, but the game was already dragging out...it seemed like a hollow victory being my second run through...and I had already submitted my contender loss.
I have since downloaded the first four GOTM for BTS and intend to get some more practice before #6 is released.
First time playing GOTM 
I turtled up at the starting position planning for a peaceful game. Settled in place and then I initially built 2 extra cities, one about 5 square to SouthEastEast from the capital as well as one in the hills to the south.
I built a shitload of wonders(all of the ancient wonders and medieval wonders I think)
Mao and Jao made an unholy pact and sent an army each to my realm but after some turtleing I took them out. Hammarubi was my best friend for most of the game.
The I teched down to modern age. I built 3 more cities in my own territory and just went for the sience. Scorewise the AI was catching up and passing me probably because of my lack of cities/population.
Anyhow, finished with spacerace victory in mid 1900s
I turtled up at the starting position planning for a peaceful game. Settled in place and then I initially built 2 extra cities, one about 5 square to SouthEastEast from the capital as well as one in the hills to the south.
I built a shitload of wonders(all of the ancient wonders and medieval wonders I think
)Mao and Jao made an unholy pact and sent an army each to my realm but after some turtleing I took them out. Hammarubi was my best friend for most of the game.
The I teched down to modern age. I built 3 more cities in my own territory and just went for the sience. Scorewise the AI was catching up and passing me probably because of my lack of cities/population.
Anyhow, finished with spacerace victory in mid 1900s
Wow, what a great game. "Mad props" to the DS for an immensely fun and playable BOTM.
All this info is from memory so it could be a little wrong
I struggle to win on prince so took the Adventurer save. Was doing well, settled in place, only founded 5 cities, most were surrounded by jungle which I cottaged and two for production, one in the little alcove which was basically backfill and one toward Izzy.
Teched like a mad man thanks to cottages and ziggurats, won the liberalism race and took printing press or gun powder.
Was part of a big Hindu block with Hammi, Izzy, HC and Hatty.
Had many wars with Bren, Rag, Monty and Mao but they were all to keep diplomacy sweet with the Hindu block. Got all geared up for war on Buddhist Joao with Cannons and Muskets, when next thing I know Izzy has changed to Christianity and BAM! DOWs me the turn after i DOW Joao. So although fighting a war on two fronts I was able to contain my losses to one city to Izzy, which after I a brief peace I took back. I then tried to get my tech back up but cultural pressure from Hammi resulted in my loosing some juicy resources and then cottaged tiles, and the tech hit I took because of the wars meant I couldn't compete. So I just played the game out trying to produce as many troops as a I could and warring with Izzy to pass the time.
Edit: Oh, at some stage I was at war with Egypt too... I think I may have declared on Izzy while she had a DP with Hatty.
But it was a great fun game and it felt great to be able to compete and even win the liberalism race on Monarch!
All this info is from memory so it could be a little wrong
I struggle to win on prince so took the Adventurer save. Was doing well, settled in place, only founded 5 cities, most were surrounded by jungle which I cottaged and two for production, one in the little alcove which was basically backfill and one toward Izzy.
Teched like a mad man thanks to cottages and ziggurats, won the liberalism race and took printing press or gun powder.
Was part of a big Hindu block with Hammi, Izzy, HC and Hatty.
Had many wars with Bren, Rag, Monty and Mao but they were all to keep diplomacy sweet with the Hindu block. Got all geared up for war on Buddhist Joao with Cannons and Muskets, when next thing I know Izzy has changed to Christianity and BAM! DOWs me the turn after i DOW Joao. So although fighting a war on two fronts I was able to contain my losses to one city to Izzy, which after I a brief peace I took back. I then tried to get my tech back up but cultural pressure from Hammi resulted in my loosing some juicy resources and then cottaged tiles, and the tech hit I took because of the wars meant I couldn't compete. So I just played the game out trying to produce as many troops as a I could and warring with Izzy to pass the time.
Edit: Oh, at some stage I was at war with Egypt too... I think I may have declared on Izzy while she had a DP with Hatty.
But it was a great fun game and it felt great to be able to compete and even win the liberalism race on Monarch!
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
I won a domination in 1892, not a great time, but i found myself playing around more withthis game, trying to learn the late ganme better as this is where I fail at higher levels.
Early in the game I wanted to forcus on using espionage and did so to a much greater extent than I usualy in my games. I still built lots of cottages and found that at this level, I eventual outpaced the rivals making tech stealing not that usefull. I only got about 5 techs this way, mostly from HC. I ended up wasting a lot of expionage points. I took out most of babylon around 500 AD and then took half of spain around 1200 AD including her wonder capitol. I then started to go after ragnar but the AP kept stopping me and taking my cities away. I was not brave enough tlo weather the unhappy nbonus and stifle my economy so I just went along with it and chose to wait later to strike.
At this point I made my priorities to get infrantry, tanks and air units and take the world quick at the end. I also goit mining inc to make my cities unit producing machines. I got started a little early when monty declared war at my out of the blue and sent a huge stack of Cuitissars, pike men and macement at me, about 50 units. He did not get them to my city quikc enough anfd I was able to get my units and first couple of tanks over tothe city in thatm time and was able to take out his units while his measly 4 trebuchetes worked on my defenses. After thing Montey was easy then i rolled through Mao, Brennus and Jao before finaly reaching domination limit. It was amazing how fast the tanks and air unts could take cities defended by riflemen and worse. I has about a third of the map in transition at one point.
I feel i learned a lot about espionage in this game, though I am not one for the espionage ecomonbmy I think I will make better use of the points that I gain now. Also I feel like i am much more solid in the use of air units, something I had always ingnored before.
Early in the game I wanted to forcus on using espionage and did so to a much greater extent than I usualy in my games. I still built lots of cottages and found that at this level, I eventual outpaced the rivals making tech stealing not that usefull. I only got about 5 techs this way, mostly from HC. I ended up wasting a lot of expionage points. I took out most of babylon around 500 AD and then took half of spain around 1200 AD including her wonder capitol. I then started to go after ragnar but the AP kept stopping me and taking my cities away. I was not brave enough tlo weather the unhappy nbonus and stifle my economy so I just went along with it and chose to wait later to strike.
At this point I made my priorities to get infrantry, tanks and air units and take the world quick at the end. I also goit mining inc to make my cities unit producing machines. I got started a little early when monty declared war at my out of the blue and sent a huge stack of Cuitissars, pike men and macement at me, about 50 units. He did not get them to my city quikc enough anfd I was able to get my units and first couple of tanks over tothe city in thatm time and was able to take out his units while his measly 4 trebuchetes worked on my defenses. After thing Montey was easy then i rolled through Mao, Brennus and Jao before finaly reaching domination limit. It was amazing how fast the tanks and air unts could take cities defended by riflemen and worse. I has about a third of the map in transition at one point.
I feel i learned a lot about espionage in this game, though I am not one for the espionage ecomonbmy I think I will make better use of the points that I gain now. Also I feel like i am much more solid in the use of air units, something I had always ingnored before.
In summary, I achieved a solid if unspectacular victory:- continuous wars and overexpansion putting paid to a vague hope of an early Space Race win. I eventually conquered Hammurabi, Joao and Brennus, taking Ragnar, Isabella (voluntarily) and finally Mao as vassals. SB completed the UN in 1950 and I was voted chairman:- I turned down a couple of opportunities for backdoor Diplo victory, largely because my score was increasing quite steadily as the health benefits of supermarkets and hospitals kicked in. I had remarkably few events of any kind (a late March bonus to my gunpowder units being the only one of note) and only a couple of culture flips against me (none for me, despite running Free Speech from 1550). I popped a Great Spy at low odds from the GL:- at first I was disappointed by this, but he proved to be of great value as a forward observer until airships arrived. My diplomacy is showing marginal improvement (I gauge from dire to poor ):- I managed to keep Monty and Mao at war for a very long period by bribes etc and forming an early alliance with Spain was very helpful.
Spoiler :
Htadus
A and L's dad
No submiittal this time around for me.
The only way to loose the Liberalism race twice in the same game will require a reload. I have my game setup to save at exit and I only load those saves. After a session I delete the previous save to avoid mistakes. Of course that wont help if I delete the wrong file
.
When I saw the second loss to Liberalism, I checked the auto save folder to find 1500+AD saves.
Oh well that game would have gone on for a long time with non stop war declaration by all but Hatty and Sitting Bull. At one time it felt as if I was playing always war. We were so close to get Steel from Lib when the world turned upside down.
Okay D minus 11 to go......for the next one. Likely Emperor. 
The only way to loose the Liberalism race twice in the same game will require a reload. I have my game setup to save at exit and I only load those saves. After a session I delete the previous save to avoid mistakes. Of course that wont help if I delete the wrong file
.When I saw the second loss to Liberalism, I checked the auto save folder to find 1500+AD saves.
Oh well that game would have gone on for a long time with non stop war declaration by all but Hatty and Sitting Bull. At one time it felt as if I was playing always war. We were so close to get Steel from Lib when the world turned upside down.Okay D minus 11 to go.
.....for the next one. Likely Emperor.
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
I had that problem as well. I conquered several viking cities that were given back to Ragnar. Fortuantly Monty declared on me jus as i was getting tanks and he sifted my vision in a more profitable direction.
Similar threads
