Brad, how will 10.1 users know if there is a new patch? Or, should we really begin saving for Jaguar? I notice that more and more games are being made for 10.2 only.
Brad: Civ3Edit for 10.1 users
- Thread starter Sid
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Brad Oliver
Civ3/4 Mac programmer
The same way that 10.2 users will know, I guess.
Grey Randall
Frustrated Mac Curmudgeon
Things are starting to look that way... ::sighs::
and no, I didn't cross over to the dark side. I fully intended to, but as I've said... I've been an Apple user and owner since the 70's and I really don't want to give up my Mac.
to that end, I've done the following. I just purchased a ZIF upgrade for my Gossamer. And am about to get rid of the cheap RAM in her and replacing it with apple Approved RAM, hopefully, this will allow me to go past 10.1.4 without a kernel panic, and will allow me to move up to Jaguar. I've waited too bloody long for this editor not to be able to use it... And no slight against you Brad, but any 10.1 patch is going to have to come out of your personal time... Just like the rest of us, you've got bills to pay, and you need to eat, so your paying gigs are going to have to come first. I'd even played around with the idea of trying to make a somewhat ugly reader/editor, but haven't had the time to do it myself either... I keep getting slammed with projects at work that I actually take home with me and work on... much to Tenshi's dismay
Grey, it's a bit of a dilemma, isn't it? I notice that SimCity 4 is being released as 10.2 only. I've never owned a SimCity game, but reckon that my 'builder' tendencies might find much employment, and enjoyment here.
I am back as a full time -- but ageing -- student, and any expenditure requires lots of planning. MoO3 and Halo and Europa Universalis and Rise of Nations (unannounced) will all compete for my Australian dollars this year. The plus-side is that an inability to fully immerse in Civ3 might benefit my dissertation grading.
I am back as a full time -- but ageing -- student, and any expenditure requires lots of planning. MoO3 and Halo and Europa Universalis and Rise of Nations (unannounced) will all compete for my Australian dollars this year. The plus-side is that an inability to fully immerse in Civ3 might benefit my dissertation grading.
Brad Oliver
Civ3/4 Mac programmer
I've spent some time in the past few days looking at the issue on 10.1. It's no simple fix, but I do intend to make it work.
Again, thanks for all your work brad, their are still a large handfull of us 10.1 users in existence.
But I was wondering from a non-programmers point of view why are the trend of apple game developers so quick to drop off older OS versions requiring only the latest? (10.2)
This is what I know. Remembering from last year as I strolled down the isle looking at PC game requirements (just to keep up with the jones, bored while waiting for a prescription) I noticed that OS requirements finally dropped off win 95 on most games and a few dropped off win 98 leaving 2000 and up ok even on the most advanced games.
It was nice to see that civIII working on both 9.x and 10.x, I thought at the time this trend would slowly drop off 9.x and require 10.0 and up in the future.
Well the future is here and things are not what I thought they would be. Ever since Jaguar has jumped into the scene, all those fancing and promising game enhancements that 10.1 brought on have been abandoned. Requirements have been jumping out of 9.x, 10.0, and 10.1 leaving only the last year as OS acceptable, while (last I checked) windows game developers have been leaving the last 3 YEARS as acceptable OS's which leads me as consumer (not programmer) to a few questions...
1. Are the apple game developers shortening game developement and conversion to make up for less income vs. pc developers?
2. Did apple overlook 10.0 and 10.1 leaving out an important piece of software included in 10.2?
3. If it is within apple game developers reach to make games for older OS's (even 9.x, they did it with civIII) why are they cutting themselves out of yet another market share of older OS users, limiting to less than 1 year of apple OS purchasers?
I now the obvious answer: buy jaguar, I don't want to hear it. What I would like is some constructive feedback from a programmers view, like brad oliver.
If I had made a technical error in any of this message, please correct me.
Thanks,
n8mac
But I was wondering from a non-programmers point of view why are the trend of apple game developers so quick to drop off older OS versions requiring only the latest? (10.2)
This is what I know. Remembering from last year as I strolled down the isle looking at PC game requirements (just to keep up with the jones, bored while waiting for a prescription) I noticed that OS requirements finally dropped off win 95 on most games and a few dropped off win 98 leaving 2000 and up ok even on the most advanced games.
It was nice to see that civIII working on both 9.x and 10.x, I thought at the time this trend would slowly drop off 9.x and require 10.0 and up in the future.
Well the future is here and things are not what I thought they would be. Ever since Jaguar has jumped into the scene, all those fancing and promising game enhancements that 10.1 brought on have been abandoned. Requirements have been jumping out of 9.x, 10.0, and 10.1 leaving only the last year as OS acceptable, while (last I checked) windows game developers have been leaving the last 3 YEARS as acceptable OS's which leads me as consumer (not programmer) to a few questions...
1. Are the apple game developers shortening game developement and conversion to make up for less income vs. pc developers?
2. Did apple overlook 10.0 and 10.1 leaving out an important piece of software included in 10.2?
3. If it is within apple game developers reach to make games for older OS's (even 9.x, they did it with civIII) why are they cutting themselves out of yet another market share of older OS users, limiting to less than 1 year of apple OS purchasers?
I now the obvious answer: buy jaguar, I don't want to hear it. What I would like is some constructive feedback from a programmers view, like brad oliver.
If I had made a technical error in any of this message, please correct me.
Thanks,
n8mac
'nix operating systems are not like the windows world. Every system is configured differently, and 10.1 & 10.2 are no exception. For example, the main complier is different - gcc2 and gcc3. Most personal computer applications come pre-compiled, so if a library that gcc3 linked the app to is missing (maybe it didn't come with 10.1), there are problems.
Cocoa Applications on OS X use shared libraries (similar to Windows DLL's). They access compiled code generated by Apple to run the GUI, open/save documents, etc. On upgrades, Apple will sometimes Add/Remove commands from these libraries that cause an app to break. I'm guessing that's what happened with Civ3Edit, but I could be completely off-base.
There's an article here that I suggest you read.
As to making applications for OS 9 etc, it seems to me that the only thing that prevents developers from making a Carbon version of the application (one that runs on 9 and 10) is that they find the Cocoa (OS X / NeXTStep) development interface more condusive for their particular application.
Sorry if I've been long winded, I hope this helps.
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