Brainstorming for the martyr culture victory.

MyOtherName

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The current popular strategy for culture victory (see beta gauntlet I or this S&T thread). The basic idea is

  • Use the religious belief that triples the tourism of relics
  • Use the martyr promotion on apostles to create relics
  • (Optional) Use the city state Kandy's suzerain bonus (a relic every time you discover a natural wonder) to get relics too
  • Contact all civs and get the positive tourism modifiers

Ironically, culture isn't really needed, except as a way to research civics!

Storing the relics

The complete list of relic slots is (?)

  • The one general purpose slot in your palace (five for Kongo)
  • One slot for every temple — holy site building unlocked by theology
  • Two slots in Mont St. Michel — a wonder unlocked by divine right

So, unless you're playing Kongo, you need to build several holy sites with temples to store your relics.

Obtaining relics

For a hall of fame win, this is surely going to be all about using Kandy's bonus, whose exploitation is beyond the scope of this post. Otherwise, relics will be obtained by the martyr promotion on apostles — this promotion creates a relic when the apostle dies in theological combat.

The ways of getting the martyr promotion are (?)

  • Making a lot of apostles, expecting a random subset of them to have martyr as an option
  • The Mont St. Michel wonder, which gives the promotion to all apostles
  • The city state Yerevan's Suzerain bonus, which lets you pick apostles' promotions from the complete list

Getting those tourists

You want contact with every civ — in general this requires the cartography tech to allow units to cross oceans, although some map scripts (or blind luck) will let you achieve contact without needing to cross the ocean.

Some of the modifiers you can play with are
  • -50% for differing religion
  • +50% for shared religion (sometimes?)
  • +25% for trade route
  • +25% for open borders

Coming up with an overall plan

The most basic research plan seems to be

  • Direct early civics towards theology and political philosophy, taking care to collect inspirations
  • Direct science towards cartography and either currency or celestial navigation

You need theology early enough to be able to start building temples. Cartography unlocks the endgame where you race to contact, convert, and trade with the other civilizations.

Currency or celestial navigation is to unlock the districts that increase trade routes. You would like to be able to establish one trade route with every rival to maximize the trade bonus.

Options for further civic research may be
  • Divine Right for the Mont St. Michel plan
  • Exploration to get the merchant republic government for trade routes and favorable civic slots
  • Humanism to unlock more theatre buildings to top off your tourism

For intercontinental trade routes, you'll want trade route access to the water on each coast via
  • a coastal city
  • a near-coastal city with a placed harbor (it doesn't need to be finished)
  • a trading post in a foreign city that meets these conditions
You may also want to have a settler or two prepared in case you need to place a coastal city on the other continent to create trade routes.

The main victory plan doesn't put too much stress on your production and gold. As long as you get the temples, faith production, and additional trade route capacity, you're free to do other things with your economy. It may help to snag a couple extra sources of tourism, such as a handful of additional wonders, or a couple theater squares and ampitheaters to hold great works of art.
 
the shared religion is a no-no I guess, because then your apostles don't get to be martyred, right?

I tried this strat and unless you can win before AIs get to Enlightenment, you're in for a longer game. Mont St Michel takes quite a while to get to and build
 
Does this strategy work on higher difficulties? I noticed in the gauntlet people win in the early ADs with about 20 visiting tourists. On deity you'd need 3 times as many tourists at that date. I'm not convinced the relics can get you even remotely close to that, then you still need more of the late game tourist stuff to win. And if you need to get to the late game stuff, such as beach resorts, natural parks and computers, then I'm not sure if all the religious investment will be worth it... I'd love to be proven wrong though.
 
Does this strategy work on higher difficulties? I noticed in the gauntlet people win in the early ADs with about 20 visiting tourists. On deity you'd need 3 times as many tourists at that date. I'm not convinced the relics can get you even remotely close to that, then you still need more of the late game tourist stuff to win. And if you need to get to the late game stuff, such as beach resorts, natural parks and computers, then I'm not sure if all the religious investment will be worth it... I'd love to be proven wrong though.
The fast wins are, I think, all about Kandy, and those would probably get choked out at higher difficulties.

I know in the gauntlet they were thinking that higher difficulty levels would make it easier to kill off your apostles, making it easier to get the Martyr relics. I suppose, however, that would be compensated by a need to build more temples,
 
I tried this strat and unless you can win before AIs get to Enlightenment, you're in for a longer game. Mont St Michel takes quite a while to get to and build
One thing I'm thinking about for this is trying to snag a great engineer to help rush the wonder.
 
There is another city state that gives you a relic once you found a natural wonder. I forgot.
And yeah, Yerevan suzerain bonus is a must for religious and culture victory.
 
Does this strategy work on higher difficulties? I noticed in the gauntlet people win in the early ADs with about 20 visiting tourists. On deity you'd need 3 times as many tourists at that date. I'm not convinced the relics can get you even remotely close to that, then you still need more of the late game tourist stuff to win. And if you need to get to the late game stuff, such as beach resorts, natural parks and computers, then I'm not sure if all the religious investment will be worth it... I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Yes, it works on higher difficulties. I wrote the second link in the OP and I've won it on Immortal as mentioned there... and I've done it now on Deity. If you have 7 cities and Theatre districts you can get 1200 Tourism (with the appropriate Civic selections), which should be able to get you a victory in pretty much any circumstance. You can also do it without Mont St. Michel if Yerevan is available in your game... but the AI loves to befriend this CS, so I usually just rush Mont St. Michel (if you plan the Eurekas properly you can get to it pretty quickly).
 
I've found that being Suzerain of Valletta is very helpful for this victory so you can rush-buy monuments with faith. You will have quite a few holy sites going up and probably a load of spare faith before you get to Temples and being able to make Apostles.
 
Yes, it works on higher difficulties. I wrote the second link in the OP and I've won it on Immortal as mentioned there... and I've done it now on Deity. If you have 7 cities and Theatre districts you can get 1200 Tourism (with the appropriate Civic selections), which should be able to get you a victory in pretty much any circumstance.
Yes, I'm sure you can win the game using this strategy, I'm just not sure yet if it can be done faster than a more science heavy approach on deity. You didn't mention what date you won in that thread, but since you used Heritage Tourism, I assume it was quite far into the ADs, or? Though I admit I have never tried a culture heavy approach and actually have no idea how fast you'd be able to unlock Heritage Tourism.

I haven't played any culture victory myself yet, but from science victories I know I can reach Radio and Computers in the early ADs with a very large empire and lots of lands for beach resorts. I'm not sure how the math here works. If I have a beach resort on a 4 appeal tile combined with Christo (double tourism output of beach resorts) and Computers (double all tourism yields) does it become 32 tourism/beach resort? If that is true, then 1000 tourism should be reached quite fast once they are unlocked.
 
Yes, I'm sure you can win the game using this strategy, I'm just not sure yet if it can be done faster than a more science heavy approach on deity. You didn't mention what date you won in that thread, but since you used Heritage Tourism, I assume it was quite far into the ADs, or? Though I admit I have never tried a culture heavy approach and actually have no idea how fast you'd be able to unlock Heritage Tourism.

I haven't played any culture victory myself yet, but from science victories I know I can reach Radio and Computers in the early ADs with a very large empire and lots of lands for beach resorts. I'm not sure how the math here works. If I have a beach resort on a 4 appeal tile combined with Christo (double tourism output of beach resorts) and Computers (double all tourism yields) does it become 32 tourism/beach resort? If that is true, then 1000 tourism should be reached quite fast once they are unlocked.

You can get to Heritage Tourism very quickly if you're buidling Theatre districts as I suggested... in fact you get through the tree so quickly that all you are doing is rebuilding the last two over and over again lol
 
I was just using this strategy as Saladin and I had an interesting occurence. All the AI's were constantly fighting each other so I could build Wonders to my hearts content, even though it was immortal (I started in Medieval era). So, after I had built the Ruhr Valley in Mecca, I put the Eiffel Tower right beside it... I know, so wrong. And it seems the game agreed with that statement because my tourism went to 666 the next turn lol

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I didn't get the Reliquaries triple bonus which is why my Tourism is low but I thought I would go ahead anyway.
 
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