Breakdown of Vanillia Playstyle

[DJ_Tanner]

Something they have talked about is for every Civ to fill a unique role, espcially at the launch. So I was thinking about how they could set this up and came up with what I think may be the metrics each civ is based around to balance out the field.

I went with a 3x3x2 set up to cover all 18 initial civs.
3 - time periods : Early, Mid, Late
3 - civ focus : Culture, Industry, Science
2 - military stance : Offensive, Defensive

That basic framework put into the First Looks we already have set up like this:

Spoiler :

ECO
ECD - Egypt
EIO - Aztec* (if they are considered base 18)
EID - China
ESO
ESD
MCO - England
MCD - France
MIO
MID
MSO
MSD
LCO
LCD - America
LIO
LID - Japan (maybe mid, but elec factory and need for large city has me at late)
LSO
LSD

 

[Siptah]

leaves rome, sumer, and greece for early.

ECO-Rome
ESO-Greece
ESD-Sumer

that would mean no persia...

for the late game we would have india and brazil - but who else?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Should there not be a religious focus?

 

[Xandinho]

leaves rome, sumer, and greece for early.

ECO-Rome
ESO-Greece
ESD-Sumer

that would mean no persia...

for the late game we would have india and brazil - but who else?

Maybe Russia and Poland

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Should there not be a religious focus?

I initially thought there would be, but I dropped it for the industrial focus, which seems clearly in.

I don't see it bumping out science either. While religion may be valuable I don't know if it is going to have the power to totally dictate an entire civ at this point.

 

[stealth_nsk]

First look order have nothing to do with alphabetical order of civs. They clearly demonstrate civs from untouchable list first.

 

[Siptah]

Maybe Russia and Poland

but if you consider their leaders they seem more midgamish

 

[DJ_Tanner]

leaves rome, sumer, and greece for early.

ECO-Rome
ESO-Greece
ESD-Sumer

that would mean no persia...

for the late game we would have india and brazil - but who else?

Late is still pretty early so there are quite a few I think. India, Brazil, Poland, Russia, Spain could all end up with their games ramping up after the Industrial era. As well as the possible Scandinavian country or our other missing ones.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Im not sure if I like the civ focus part. Science and culture is pretty similar and industry is not really a focus for any civ, atleast not being industrial strong.

I think it should be changed to:

Specific: These civs bonuses are very focused on a specific part of the game, France and Egypt are very focused on wonders and thus would come under the specific category.

Generalist: These civs have bonuses that can be used for many purposes, they are not as dependent on specific stuff such as religion or wonders as the specific civs which allow them to make good use of any situation. China is a generalist civ, thanks to its builder bonuses it can wonder spam but also expand well because it need less workers. The great wall offers several bonuses.

Militarist: These civs bonuses is dependent largely on military play. Aztec is an example on a militarist civ. Its UU can great help its early game, its UA ability require control over resources.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Im not sure if I like the civ focus part. Science and culture is pretty similar and industry is not really a focus for any civ, atleast not being industrial strong.

I don't see culture and science being all that close, but I could see science getting dropped for religion instead, as that offers many more flavors.

As for the industrial I never meant it as pure hammer output, but more that they are builders. They have a stronger push for and with districts was how I was picturing that idea.

 

[Leyrann]

To be fair I doubt it's possible to break it down like this. They probably just thought up playstyles for civs and then compared them with one another and changed playstyles where they were too much alike.

 

[Krajzen]

There are no patterns.

The reason for civ x, outside of Mandatory Team (America, Egypt, Greece, Rome, China, India, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, England, Aztecs) being in game is "because developers liked it".

 

[DJ_Tanner]

To be fair I doubt it's possible to break it down like this. They probably just thought up playstyles for civs and then compared them with one another and changed playstyles where they were too much alike.

There is a rhyme and a reason to it. Those playstyles are changes exactly for that reason. The playstyle in vanilla needs to be wholly unique (as mentioned by the devs). The way you do that is set up a system to cover attributes x,y, and z.

These are the ones that stood out to me when I looked at what we have seen so far, thought it may be interesting and fuel a little more speculation.

 

[Ll1442]

Late is still pretty early so there are quite a few I think. India, Brazil, Poland, Russia, Spain could all end up with their games ramping up after the Industrial era. As well as the possible Scandinavian country or our other missing ones.

As Scandinavian, I'd set them as mid game civs, whereas lategame, might be a new one, if they choose to go with Canada or Australia.

I think the 3x3x2 system very much makes sense. We already se the Sphinx and the Château have similar attributes as empowered by wonders, as well as both French and US UU have a combat bonus on home continent.

 

[Leyrann]

There is a rhyme and a reason to it. Those playstyles are changes exactly for that reason. The playstyle in vanilla needs to be wholly unique (as mentioned by the devs). The way you do that is set up a system to cover attributes x,y, and z.

These are the ones that stood out to me when I looked at what we have seen so far, thought it may be interesting and fuel a little more speculation.

Just because the system is that every civilization is unique, does not mean that everything has to be covered, which means that just comparing civilizations with one another would do the trick, and on top of that it would lead to better fits for civilizations and the whole feeling more organic and less planned (which imo is a good thing).

 

[Sagax]

I don't think it's that easy to fit the civs into this framework. Right off the bat, I can totally see America being a viable offensive civ on its own continent - the Rough Rider bonus says "home continent", not "home territory".

Also, no "Gold/Commerce" for civ focus? How would we place something like civ5 Portugal, that is all about getting money?