breaking MP pacts

[abby]

i thought i already posted this but can't find it anywhere...so here we go again...

I think I just figured out that if I have a mutual protection pact w/ another civ, and they go to war so i declare war with that civ, and then some 20 or so turns later i make peace with the civ, then that counts as breaking the mutual protection pact! is this correct? hardly seems fair.

is there any way to get out of it?

 

[Turner]

After 20 turns you should be able to cancel it. Or not, if the MPP is still in place before declaring Peace with the other civ. Sigh...that's why I don't like MPPs, much prefer MAs against the AIs. That way, when they break the pact early (and they always do) I'm not the one with a rep hit.

 

[sourboy]

Best bet is to go with the Military Alliance when the aggressor, and a Mutual Protection Pact when you're behind a Superpower you think may attack. Either way - never break pacts, the hit isn't worth it. They only last 20 turns.

 

[abby]

I didn't think about doing that - MA pacts against an aggressor. i only used them when *I* was aggressing!

thanks

 

[Turner]

It often helps to 'gang up' on the superpowers by doing this. Generally, when the AI declares war on me, I get all the other AI that I can to gang up on them. If nothing else, it makes it easier for me to survive the war.

 

[abby]

i'm doing this now and having much more luck, thanks for the advice.

however what i dont like is when i work so hard to take over a city, and then another civ swoop[s in and delivers the final blow, thus capturing the city for themselves. is it possible to tell how many units remain in an enemy city?

 

[Turner]

You have to have a spy planted in that civ. Then you can examine the city while at war with them. Or have stolen their warplans. Both will tell you how many units are in that city.

It is pretty frustrating...

 

[abby]

Oh really I hadn't realized that. I will try that ... since I lost my user manual I didn't know how to plant spies (the shift-cntrl-E) and to examine cities. Will try that now..

 

[Turner]

There should still be a copy on your CD, in a .pdf format. Check the Manuals subdir on your CD.

 

[abby]

Yes there is a manual on my CD! Actually I found a doc online with all the keyboard shortcuts I need.

So basically I need to 'investigate city' and pay the price every time I want to know how many units are left? Ugh.

 

[Turner]

Depends how you do it. If you investigate city, then you have to pay each time. However, if you manage to steal plans, you'll see them continuously until the end of the turn. Of course, Stealing Plans is much more expensive that investigating city. You decide what you want to see....

 

[sourboy]

You should also be aware that espionage is best in the late game when you have the money to spend, and all the upgrades built. In the early game, the best bet is to have a stack of far more troops then you actually need to attack a city with.

 

[Grille]

I think I just figured out that if I have a mutual protection pact w/ another civ, and they go to war so i declare war with that civ, and then some 20 or so turns later i make peace with the civ, then that counts as breaking the mutual protection pact! is this correct?

Assuming you declared war on your MPP ally (and MPP is still with a number in brackets shown), then you get a rep hit.
Other than declaring war on your MPP ally, you can't break a MPP deal.
(You could only dismiss the MPP after 20+ turns like Turner said.)

In case you're talking of three civs directly involved, like:
-you have a MPP with civ A
-civ A declares on B
-MPP is triggered, so you declare on B, too
-you sign peace with civ B at some point and your MPP has not been dismissed yet, but civ A is still at war with civ B
then there's risk the MPP is triggered again almost at once (you re-declare on civ B), thus you'd get a rep hit for breaking the peace deal with civ B.

Civ A, though, would not be aware of your rep hit as long as they're still fighting civ B.

If your peace treaty with civ B was signed at a point of time when your MPP with civ A was terminable (sounds like), you just missed that opportunity to avoid a rep hit (i.e. do diplo with A, access active deals, click on MPP, clear table; sign peace with B).


You *could* do some very nasty things with MPPs if these are just about to expire...