Buddhism's Four Noble Truths.

Mojotronica

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We haven't had a good discussion of Buddhism here for awhile (if ever) -- here's a link to a pdf summary of Buddhism's Four Noble Truths, and Noble Eightfold Path:
http://www.interfaitheducationinitiative.org/images/content/BuddhismsFourNobleTruths.pdf

I believe that there are a great many parallels between all major religions, but I have mainly studied Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism -- so I'll limit my discussion to those faiths.

Specifically I'll point out that the Four Noble Truths deal with the reasons for and solutions to suffering, and conclude that it is essentially the state of human existence. Christianity and Judaism ALSO are built on a foundation of describing the reasons for and solutions to suffering, but they call desire "free will" and suffering is rooted in separation of Man and God thanks to humankind being cast out of the Garden of Eden.

In all of these faiths the key to salvation is living a moral and pious life.

That is UNIVERSAL. The other specifics of each faith are different, but that is the same.

I think that the common philosophy of all of these faiths is where God is most likely to be found.
 
Number 1 seems similar to Christianity to me, only Christianity promises and end to that suffering if you try for it.

Number 2 seems exactly like Christianity, saying that we've brought suffering upon ourselves.

Number 3 is sort of like Christianity. Both of them acknowledge that suffering can be destroyed. But Buddhism talks about the cycle of life and death. As for Nirvana, it seems like Heaven except for that phrase "to become detached from likes or dislikes". I don't think Christianity teaches that Heaven is a place free from preferences.

Number 4 seems like Christianity. You can only be free from suffering by relinquishing its cause - immorality, hatred, and pride.
 
Didn't the Buddha get enlightened and discover this after fasting and meditating, where evil and good spirits started talking/messing/discussing/etc. with him?

Not exactly the most scientific approach...

Although no matter how Buddhism came about, you can certainly agree that what it teaches isn't neccesarily bull.
 
Originally posted by WillJ
Didn't the Buddha get enlightened and discover this after fasting and meditating, where evil and good spirits started talking/messing/discussing/etc. with him?

Not exactly the most scientific approach...

Although no matter how Buddhism came about, you can certainly agree that what it teaches isn't neccesarily bull.

As far as my understanding goes- which isn`t very far I have to say- the demons / spirits alluded to in buddhism are a part of one`s own personality.
 
Mrogreturns is correct. The "demons" are hatred, anger, lust, greed, etc.
 
Originally posted by Mrogreturns


As far as my understanding goes- which isn`t very far I have to say- the demons / spirits alluded to in buddhism are a part of one`s own personality.

I know that some Christians define demons as existing as actual external beings, but I've always thought that interpretation is fairy-tale-esque. I think that the demons of Christianity are also within each of us. The source of all evil is the separation of man and God.
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
Number 3 is sort of like Christianity. Both of them acknowledge that suffering can be destroyed. But Buddhism talks about the cycle of life and death. As for Nirvana, it seems like Heaven except for that phrase "to become detached from likes or dislikes". I don't think Christianity teaches that Heaven is a place free from preferences.

Buddhism's cycle of reincarnation is it's way of explaining the idea that there is true justice in the Universe. By experiencing multiple lives, the good experiences in some of your lives balance out the bad ones in others.

Christianity deals with this with the idea of heaven. You get a single lifetime, an it may not be a great life but that is basically irrelevent because the afterlife is so good.

Becoming detached from likes and dislikes is another way of saying "rejecting materialism" which is definitely a Christian message.
 
Buddhism’s Four Noble Truths

1. Knowledge of suffering (dukkha)
All individual existence is miserable & painful, thus life inevitably involves suffering.

I wonder if this is an eternal truth or only a passing consequence of our animal nature. Will the suffering deminish in the course of manking? Ancient humans had to face predators, famine, hatred, war etc. etc. Back when we were an animal, we had to face the chance of being devoured alive. Nowadays, we don't face these dangers, nobody has to starve anymore - at least not in our world - the first world. (It is still different in other parts of the world.)

But has the situation really improved? Some get killed in traffic accidents, others are poisened by byproducts of our industrial civilization.

But suffering is more than physical hardship:

2. Origin of suffering
Suffering (indeed, existence itself) originates in desire and ignorance; suffering is rooted in desire for things to be different than they are, or to stay as we want them.

When I am hungry, I should eat. When I am tired, I should sleep. That's obvious.

But why would I eat more than I could use?
Why would I have more money than I could spend on things that I need?
What should I do when I am bored? Watch TV? Eat chocolate? Browse CFC? Meditate?

What should I do if my neighbor has got a Mercedes and gets all the girls?
What should we do if suddenly Japan sells more cars to the world than we do?


Isn't it desire that can be found at the very basic of our economic system? People can be as rich as you'd want - and still not be satisfied.
Isn't it desire that makes any biological species procreate?

In fact, something always makes me go on and crave for more. Be it a material or immaterial thing.

A classic story about desire goes like this:

A martial arts student went to his teacher and said earnestly, "I am devoted to studying your martial system. How long will it take me to master it."
The teacher's reply was casual, "Ten years."
Impatiently, the student answered, "But I want to master it faster than that. I will work very hard. I will practice everyday, ten or more hours a day if I have to. How long will it take then?"
The teacher thought for a moment, "20 years."

Now please answer, is buddhahood a desireable thing?

3. Destruction of suffering
Suffering must be extinguished totally; and when one is able to do this one is able to break out of
samsara (the cycle of birth, life, death, and rebirth) and achieve Nirvana; the only way out of suffering is to relinquish desire (i.e., to become detached from likes and dislikes).

4. There is a way to remove suffering
Only through a life of morality, concentration, wisdom, can suffering be extinguished, and the way to
live such a life is to follow the Noble Eight-fold Path.

How should I put it?
I feel like a grain of sand in the storm, trying to resist the tides of my history and biology. - No, thats too kitschy...

Maybe like this:
The wise one follows the path of the best results, as he understands it, acting along what is percieved to bear the best outcome. The way to remove suffering is to forget about egotistical desires and to act according what the very situation demands.


The Noble Eightfold Path
The stepping-stones of Insight
1. Right knowledge (right understanding): recognition of the Four Noble Truths; seeing through
illusions
2. Right attitude (right thought and motives): goodwill, peaceableness
The stepping-stones of Morality
3. Right speech: no lying, chatter, gossip; the speaking only of wisdom, truthfulness
4. Right action: the domain of all moral behavior (especially, no murder, no stealing, no adultery); for
laypersons, the observance of five precepts for moral conduct:
(1) Don't destroy life (2) Don't steal
(3) Don't engage in sexual misconduct (4) Don't lie
(5) Don't use intoxicants
5. Right livelihood (right occupation): one is to earn one's living without harming others, without
disrupting the social harmony
The stepping-stones of Spiritual Discipline
6. Right effort: no evil impulses, only good ones; one is to cut oneself off from unwholesome states
(past, present, and future)
7. Right mindfulness = donÕt give in to desire; liberation through the mind
8. Right composure (right meditation) = intense concentration; mental discipline to quiet the mind



Mojo, I know you think different, but this imho is the point where free will ends. If anyone thinks he is right on a matter at stake, he will at least try to follow that path. His personal judgment demands that.

You can't make yourself do something you are not convinced of, could you?


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One more thing about the 4 and the 8 number:

I don't feel that universal truth can be brought down into numbers. Christianity knows two truth': Love thy God and love thy neighbor like yourself. Maybe someone wise enough men could come up with the 3 truths or the 5 truths, or maybe with the 7-fold path or the 9-fold path.

The truth is bigger as we can think of. Truth is more than the Ten Commandments. Truth and wisdom can't be compressed into countable paragraphs.

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Here's one more buddhist story:

One of master Gasan's monks visited the university in Tokyo. When he returned, he asked the master if he had ever read the Christian Bible. "No," Gasan replied, "Please read some of it to me." The monk opened the Bible to the Sermon on the Mount in St. Matthew, and began reading. After reading Christ's words about the lilies in the field, he paused. Master Gasan was silent for a long time. "Yes," he finally said, "Whoever uttered these words is an enlightened being. What you have read to me is the essence of everything I have been trying to teach you here!"
 
quote:
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One of master Gasan's monks visited the university in Tokyo. When he returned, he asked the master if he had ever read the Christian Bible. "No," Gasan replied, "Please read some of it to me." The monk opened the Bible to the Sermon on the Mount in St. Matthew, and began reading. After reading Christ's words about the lilies in the field, he paused. Master Gasan was silent for a long time. "Yes," he finally said, "Whoever uttered these words is an enlightened being. What you have read to me is the essence of everything I have been trying to teach you here!"
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I've heard that when Buddha was asked if he was God, he said no, God will come from the west. Something along those lines. I personally feel that Buddhist and Christian philosophies complement each other well. I am spiritual and have learned from buddhist texts and the bible. I just hate religion.
 
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