Build order

[bokaj]

Hi!

In Vanilla Civ the first thing I build is usually the worker to get my infrastructure going. It seems to me though that in FfH it is not such a good idea to build a worker first because it takes longer to research the techs required for all the modernisations and also there are more barbarians, thus the early game is more dangerous.

What's your usual build order for the first rounds? When do you build your first worker/settler?

 

[Morganknight]

It greatly depends on your game settings. What level of difficulty and whether you have raging barbarians or not...

But, the Agriculture Civic is so good for growth, that I nearly always research it first and build a worker first. Depending on your initial terrain, these will generally finish around the same time. Any lost growth you may have had from building your worker is rapidly forgotten as your city fills very quickly with just a few farms. At higher difficulties where your cities max out at 4 population, this strategy might not be best, but having high production farms will increase the rate you produce settlers as well, so even if you don't research/build these things first, they should remain at the top of your list of priorities.

 

[Yoshi2942]

With only a few exceptions, I'll build Warriors until I reach 3 population - then I build either a settler or a worker. Usually it will be a worker, if there will be even one spot I can improve in the short run, but if my starting city is on a river and I see an excelent spot which is also on that river -- then it will likely be a settler. I know that having the cities connected as soon as they are built isn't that important - but by the time the city is actually built, other civs may have moved into the area and I may have to put off the worker some more in favor of warriors if my neighbors are aggressive. Besides, if I leave the excellent spot - the AI may grab it.

 

[BCalchet]

If there is an excellent spot and you wait even one turn to settle it, the AI will beat you there by one turn. (If the AI should somehow fail to do so, a barbarian city will pop instead, only to get stolen by an AI after all your warriors trying to take it are eaten by spiders or crushed by a lucky goblin.)

Same with religions - delay it by a single turn, and you'll be beaten by that turn. Also applies to important wonders (where the offending AI will be on the opposite side of the world, stopping any silly ideas you might have about taking it.)

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Build warriors until I have x turns left to get Education, where x is how long it currently takes my city to build a worker. After making one worker, build warriors until I have four (five or six on raging barbs). Then, make a Settler. Then, a library. Then, more warriors and another settler. Then a market, elder council, maybe a festival. All this dependent on tech, of course.

 

[Master_Hugian]

If there is an excellent spot and you wait even one turn to settle it, the AI will beat you there by one turn. (If the AI should somehow fail to do so, a barbarian city will pop instead, only to get stolen by an AI after all your warriors trying to take it are eaten by spiders or crushed by a lucky goblin.)

Same with religions - delay it by a single turn, and you'll be beaten by that turn. Also applies to important wonders (where the offending AI will be on the opposite side of the world, stopping any silly ideas you might have about taking it.)

I agree 100% with this statement, We must give it a unique name for this strange but very predictable pattern

 

[loki1232]

How the Ai normally feels?

 

[Sarisin]

Whether I am playing with raging barbs or not I like to have more than one defender. The AI on the other hand seems to have a priority on expanding. This means building new cities and having usually only a single Warrior for defense. Its funny, when I have tried that, I have quickly lost cities to early roving skeletons, lizardmen, or barbs in numbers!

The other thing I have a hard time understanding after playing many FFH2 games is how ECONOMICALLY the AI is able to expand like it does.

I am playing at Prince now and it amazes me how the AI is able to sprawl quickly to 4, 5 or more cities. For me, it takes time to build improvements/buildings to generate gold. Also, having extra defenders costs maintenance too, I guess.

But, I would think the AI would always be in the red gold per turn, yet it keeps growing.

I am talking about early game here before religions are founded and more of the financial techs, buildings, wonders, etc. come into play.

 

[Yoshi2942]

Actually Sarisin -- the AI is unable to keep up economically. This is a big problem. Play as the Balseraphs, quickly build Loki and send him around to scout out the neighbors. They may have a lot of cities - and usually a lot of warriors/archers guarding the cities; but their research to gold ratio is terrible --- I frequently find AIs that only have 20-30% research.

 

[R0GERSHRUBBER]

When playing a Civ that starts with Ancient Chants (or gets it from a Goody Hut early), I've actually had good success rushing Mysticism for God King. GK is a terrific civic while you only have a few nearby cities. Does anyone else go for God King early?

Agriculture is generally my next priority. Agriculture is very powerful at this stage in the game. (Too powerful, IMO)

 

[Ringtailed]

If there is an excellent spot and you wait even one turn to settle it, the AI will beat you there by one turn. (If the AI should somehow fail to do so, a barbarian city will pop instead, only to get stolen by an AI after all your warriors trying to take it are eaten by spiders or crushed by a lucky goblin.)

Or, better yet: a barbarian city will pop there and Acheron will appear

Usually (in single player) I'll try to build a scout or two first, depending on map size so that I can get as many goody huts as possible for free techs. Then, it's generally worker, 1 to 2 warriors, settler.

 

[jaredbb]

My Emporor strategy (Huge map 16 civ): I don't bother to build workers until I have around 4 cities. Instead, I use my forest stealthed scouts to declare war and capture them.

My first builds are warriors until pop. 3, and then a settler. Once I have three cities I build the elder council (sage specialist) improvement in my capital, and switch to being to being a God King Pascifist (or Nationalist if I'm at war), so I can build an academy from the great sage and crank out settlers from my capital. When I have 5 or 6 cities and my research bottoms at 50% with my gold in the red I switch to a builder strategy.

Early game war-mongering provides good cash flow without lasting diplomatic damage. My target techs are Agrculture, Calendar, Education, and a religion (founding or otherwise). Getting a religion early is particularly important if luxuries are unavailable.

As for the AI/barbs snapping up good city spots a turn before, I camp out two well promoted warriors in the area and use a warrior with mobility 1 to escort the settler. If the AI comes close I declare war and smile at the free worker that's now available for developing my new city.

Once I have my core 6 cities, then I play good neighbor. This is usually when trade routes become common for me, and Open borders are esential.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Actually Sarisin -- the AI is unable to keep up economically. This is a big problem. Play as the Balseraphs, quickly build Loki and send him around to scout out the neighbors. They may have a lot of cities - and usually a lot of warriors/archers guarding the cities; but their research to gold ratio is terrible --- I frequently find AIs that only have 20-30% research.

I've confirmed this through ctrl-z.

When playing a Civ that starts with Ancient Chants (or gets it from a Goody Hut early), I've actually had good success rushing Mysticism for God King. GK is a terrific civic while you only have a few nearby cities. Does anyone else go for God King early?

Agriculture is generally my next priority. Agriculture is very powerful at this stage in the game. (Too powerful, IMO)

I tend to go Agriculture => Education => Writing => Mysticism. It is an incredibly powerful civic early on, but the high upkeep can hurt you as the game continues.

As for the Agriculture civic, I don't really build enough farms to make it useful. If I can adopt an extra civic without extra anarchy, I tend to adopt Agriculture just for the extra health, but if I have some grain resources on plains, I'll often forgo it because I need the hammers more.

 

[Mesix]

When playing a Civ that starts with Ancient Chants (or gets it from a Goody Hut early), I've actually had good success rushing Mysticism for God King. GK is a terrific civic while you only have a few nearby cities. Does anyone else go for God King early?

Agriculture is generally my next priority. Agriculture is very powerful at this stage in the game. (Too powerful, IMO)

Yeah...I leave it on God King for a good portion of the early game. When the capital is the only city, or even when I build a few cities that are starting to grow, I find that the bonuses that God King gives are very beneficial.

 

[Mesix]

I've confirmed this through ctrl-z.

I tend to go Agriculture => Education => Writing => Mysticism. It is an incredibly powerful civic early on, but the high upkeep can hurt you as the game continues.

As for the Agriculture civic, I don't really build enough farms to make it useful. If I can adopt an extra civic without extra anarchy, I tend to adopt Agriculture just for the extra health, but if I have some grain resources on plains, I'll often forgo it because I need the hammers more.

I almost always use agriculture. I build my farms on grasslands and floodplains (losing no hammers) and I build my cottages on the plains (to preserve the hammers and get the extra gold). The abundance of food allows me to assign more specialists. If playing a good or neutral civ, this usually equates to making several priests in every city and building the alter of Lunonatar so that all the priests give me +3 hammers. In the late game they give me bonus culture as well.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I almost always use agriculture. I build my farms on grasslands and floodplains (losing no hammers) and I build my cottages on the plains (to preserve the hammers and get the extra gold). The abundance of food allows me to assign more specialists. If playing a good or neutral civ, this usually equates to making several priests in every city and building the alter of Lunonatar so that all the priests give me +3 hammers. In the late game they give me bonus culture as well.

I never go for the Luonnotar, just because it seems too... powerful. I feel like I'm cheating when I build it. I suppose with the increased tech requirements it's not that bad, maybe I'll have to try it out myself next game.

 

[Mesix]

I don't build the final stage that ends the game...I just upgrade my alter to level six with my great profits and enjoy the bonuses (boni?).

edit: prophets, not profits...two entirely different things hehehe.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Use the prophets to get some profits.

 

[Sarisin]

Actually Sarisin -- the AI is unable to keep up economically. This is a big problem. Play as the Balseraphs, quickly build Loki and send him around to scout out the neighbors. They may have a lot of cities - and usually a lot of warriors/archers guarding the cities; but their research to gold ratio is terrible --- I frequently find AIs that only have 20-30% research.

That's interesting, because I find those ai civs with loads of cities usually pull ahead of me in the tech race. I assumed more cities equals more science equals more tech.

There are exceptions of course. In my current game (aggressive ai), I set a personal record by having FIVE ( of 9) ai civs declare war on me on the same turn. The Svartlafar have been at war with me constantly - they are building only weak Hunters and Prophets and coming in small groups of 4-7 to be massacred by my waiting Monks, Axemen and Rangers. I am piling up the XP with this.

But, the Lanun who expanded early and has 10 or more cities is ahead of me on tech. They are a good example of what I was saying - they expanded quickly and now are ahead on pts., techs and sending crossbowmen after me in bunches.

 

[Sarisin]

My Emporor strategy (Huge map 16 civ): I don't bother to build workers until I have around 4 cities.

I tested this once in a raging barb game. Usually I get a worker and start building improvements.

However, in one game I decided to forego the improvements and go for my second city. Yes, it slowed growth, etc., but...

I had hardly any barbs come to attack my cities.

Build the improvements, and they will come.

I think barbs (certainly the early orc spearmen) are programmed to pillage first vs. attack cities. If you have nothing to pillage, they will go elsewhere. I think it is the same for Orthus.

So, the choice is yours - build improvements, but you will have to deal with defending barbs. Or, skip the improvements for awhile and let the other civs take a pounding.