Building Cities on Enemy Colonies = War?

[themoffster]

Should building a city where it would overrun another civ`s colony be declared an act of war? For example I have colonies overrun all the time because the AI builds cities on the squares next to them.
I feel you should get the same warning, when you build a city that would overrun a colony, that you do when you try to attack another civ that isn`t already at war with you.

 

[CrazyDuck]

couldn't agree more espically when it over-runs your only source of oil

egypt I'm looking at you

:rocket:

 

[Paalikles]

I voted no (being the first to do so...)
Why? I guess for a few reasons
- if it is not in your territory, then someone will outsmart you and steal your resources
- if I say no, I'll probably start a discussion or debate or argument (whatever)

Perhaps I should have voted maybe.
I clearly see your point - and it is a good one too.

I try to build at least as many cities as I need to secure all resource-types + lux...therefore my strategy seldom includes building colonies....

 

[The Last Conformist]

I voted yes.

Does anyone know if the AI gets angry when you neutralize his colonies with newbuilt cities or expanding culture radii? I know I certainly gets when they do it to me ...

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
I voted yes.

Does anyone know if the AI gets angry when you neutralize his colonies with newbuilt cities or expanding culture radii? I know I certainly gets when they do it to me ...

I voted yes because of this. I used and abused the AI doing just this. They don't consider it an act of war.

In the one game I found that, contrary to popular opinion, ICS does not exist in 1.21f. I played Marla's map with just 7 AI players and the computer players kept building cities up to the point where corruption would make them useless. They stopped building cities at that point, they switched to colonies. This seems at first glance like a good strategy. I decided to put a city near EVERY one of these colonies. Sure these cities added to my corruption, but I had oil and rubber and they didn't. I did this at least 20 times and not once did it lower my ratings with the AI, much less leading to war.

 

[akinkhoo]

well, when the british came to malayan,
most of it was control by the dutch.

but the british manage proclaim for the rightful sultan (king)
and took the land right under the dutchman's nose

This tell's you that colony are not fully controlable by the owner.
they should be a act of war only if the colony was attack.

 

[MrBiggBoy]

If the colony is UNDEFENDED, no, it should not be an act of war.

However, if you have A MILITARY UNIT on it, it would be an act of war.

 

[Zouave]

I first posted this five or more months ago.

Any town built near a colony that overruns that colony (especially one with a military unit on it) is committing an act of war. That is especially so if anyone is dumb enough to use the absurdly rare resource appearance rates that Firaxis gave us. Edit!

Of course stupid Firaxis ignored these complaints, just as they will ignore this thread.

That's why colonies are usually totally useless.

Send your complaints direct to: http://www.firaxis.com/contact_gamefeedback.cfm

 

[Pygzilla]

Yes,

India ans thatwarmongering passivist Ghandi did this to my steel colony. It was fortified. I made it an act of war and removed the problem.

 

[Demetrias]

if its so vital then build a city. cities make sure it is an act of war to take away that resource. I only build cities. no need for colonies that way and you have all the resources you need.

 

[Maple]

Zouave, if you are so critical of civ3, then why do you play? Why don't you go play pong or something?

 

[Quiet Sound]

Yes. Colonies are all but useless otherwise.

 

[sumthinelse]

Proposed game change: Why can't the one square where your colony is be part of your territory? That is, the building of a city next to it would not consume it, but might surround it. Then, after the enemy city builds a temple the colony would culture-flip (unless your civ's total culture was strong -- remember, your total culture is supposed to count) eventually but you would have a few turns to build a city before that. A one square city surrounded by enemy territory with an airport? West Berlin?

This colony absorption is an annoying game trap that should be fixed somehow. I'm not sure my idea is best.

 

[Galitus]

I disagree, what needs to be remembered is with a game where borders are continously expanding, and where resources can appear randomly mid-game, such a system would be incredibly annoying. For example, say Xerxes (being the crafty fellow that he is) builds a border city to add to his ever expanding empire. Three spaces from that city, later in the game, rubber appears which Lincoln builds a colony on. When Xerxes' borders expand to the point that it covers Lincoln's colony, should that be an act of war? The proposed change as it stands would only be burdensome to the player, now if Firaxis was able to somehow work around this I would definitely advocate such a change, but I don't see how that would be possible without a huge amount of programming/work.

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by Galitus
When Xerxes' borders expand to the point that it covers Lincoln's colony, should that be an act of war?

No, expanding borders should not be an act of war. Deliberately putting a city down such that it engulfs the colony should. When MP comes out I will consider it an act of war if any of you do it to me. In the case where the city borders expanded, the other player had at least 10 turns to build a real city there if he wantwed the resource that bad.

 

[akinkhoo]

remember that colony means
"the land does NOT belong to you, you are JUST borrowing IT!".

Since it is NOT your land, I don't see why it would be an act of war... if YOU hate the guy so much for taking the resource, declare war YOURSELF! What is so hard above that?

This debate is quite werid since the game manual already said colony is not suppose to replace city.....

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Proposed game change: Far larger territory, No towns on Tundra, Jungle, Desert (unless adjcacent to river) so many res will be in inaccessible terrain for towns. Culture radius grows as fast as now.

Results: colonies will have a certain life-span, but once en empire gets big and culturally strong, they get kicked out. Around say 1900 AD at the latest......

I once had a game with 3 opponents on huge map, and had cut Optimum City Number far down - so no chance to build lotsa towns. We ended up using lots of colonies - it was fun!

 

[Galitus]

No, expanding borders should not be an act of war. Deliberately putting a city down such that it engulfs the colony should. When MP comes out I will consider it an act of war if any of you do it to me. In the case where the city borders expanded, the other player had at least 10 turns to build a real city there if he wantwed the resource that bad.

There is the problem. It would be extremely difficult to program the game in a fashion that it is able to tell if a player is building a city to expand his empire, or to over run a colony. Multiplayer games are different because you have real players who can decide whether a city was built for expanding/ or colony raizing. For the later depending on the circumstances, I may consider someone going far out of their way to build a city near my colonies an act of war.

 

[konigstiger]

I voted yes

For simple reason, I claimed it FIRST, if you took it that should serve as a pretext for war.

 

[Paalikles]

Originally posted by akinkhoo
remember that colony means
"the land does NOT belong to you, you are JUST borrowing IT!".

Since it is NOT your land, I don't see why it would be an act of war... if YOU hate the guy so much for taking the resource, declare war YOURSELF! What is so hard above that?

This debate is quite werid since the game manual already said colony is not suppose to replace city.....

Eventually, that's what happened to England's colonies
- Example US fought for independence.....(In case someone forgot... )

Besides - it is imperative that your own borders expand to swallow your colonies - don't just sit and watch as your neighbours increase in size. Or do your people admire their culture....WATCH OUT!