Building The Spaceshuttle

Hurdle13

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
5
Location
Illinois
Alright, I play Civilization 3, And Im pretty good. Not as good as some of you out there. One thing i cant do though is finish the Space Shuttle in time. When ever i go for it I always end up having that mandatory Retirement thing before i can Finish.

So Can any of you guys out there help me out here. Explain How I can get it faster and stuff.

Thanks.

-Hurdler
 
I'd would suggest you to look thru the excellent collection of strategy articles we have on this site, and also just generally read up the threads. There're many useful tips around; I'm learning something new each day I read thru the stuff here.

Alternatively, you can try or read one of the succession games or training games in the Succession Games subforum, to see howw others play, improve your skills etc. ;)

No need to feel embarassed; we all started fr scratch once. :)
 
Hurdle, no need to cast a glance aside at the fact you have been playing chieftain, but now that you know where the buttons are, put the training wheels aside.

On chieftain, your AI opponents are so ******** by the cost penalties that you cannot learn to play the game well. Everything your enemies do on Chieftain costs twice as much as the same activity costs for you. If you have played several chieftain games you have developed some bad habits that will have to be broken in order for you to play on and enjoy the game. This will be a bit painfull at first.

Read the article on Improving Your Opening Play Sequences

because that will be you first priority.

Forget about the space shuttle. Forget about nukes and tanks. Just play games aggressively up until 1000 BC to see if you build the power of you civ the be the most powerful nation on your planet. You should be able to do this easily on regent before you move on to playing the rest of the game. If you do this, you will be in command of the game and then you can "play" with all the other features to dicover how you like the game to proceed.

If you ignore this advice about focusing on your opening play then you are just a victim in training to be consumed by your powerful neighbors as you progress up the difficulty chain.

Everything depends on how well you exploit the terrain and resource that you are given in teh starting position of the game.
 
Cracker is correct. I'm still trying to improve that myself, but I can't break my old Civ I habits of irrigating plains, although I at least have stopped irrigating grasslands early on:).

If you are getting to 2050 AD on Chieftain, and you can't beat the AI to the Spaceship, you are missing something. Are most of your cities size 20+, or are they not fully developed? Do you have Libraries, Universities, and Research Labs in most/all major cities, and marketplaces/banks as well? Are all of your city squares roaded/railed to produce commerce? Are you trading technology to other AIs early in the game, then withholding techs later on? Is the other AI way bigger than you?
 
It's actually rather hard to get technologically advanced on Chieftan, since the AIs research so slowly they won't provide many advances. You'll have to do all the research yourself. I think Regent is where neither you nor the AI has a handicap. Then you can count on being able to trade for some advances. That's another reason to play a harder difficulty :).

If you really want to research foryourself, do everything on billindenver's list, but you'll also want an above-average number of cities, a well placed Forbidden Palace, improvements to reduce corruption, and wonders that help your economy like Wall Street and Adam Smith's. And sell some of your techs to the AI's for cash. Then you can set research high and lose gold every turn, but come out ahead with the income form other civs.
 
I play on Monarch and Emperor most of the time - but compete in the Vet division of the tournament. I find that the spaceship win is the weakest part of my game.

If I concentrate too much on building up my own infrastructure, the AI can get away from me and I'm in danger of losing. If I go into warmongering mode and prune the other civs then I damage their research capacity too much and it takes too long to research thorugh the tree on my own. I find this a difficult balance to achieve.

Their were some amazingly early spaceship finishes (Aeson et al) in GOTM 10.

Any hints?
 
I played on Chieftain level and using the advice in crackers improving your opening moves article, I was able to achieve a Space Race victory in the 1890’s before that my games would always end with a high score victory. Yeah the AI does lousy research at this level and I was able to do most of the research myself. I was so far ahead of them that I was trading them high tech items for lump sum’s per turn which increased my science spending even further. I completed the Space race before any of them had the necessary techs to even start on it. Now I just need to improve my military strategies before moving on to the next level. I really suck here.
 
Very good comment from Roman1 about tech trading. If you can get the Great Library, you can cruise until half-way through the Medieval Age and save money, build infrastructure, construct armies, etc. If you can't build it, you'll have to trade a lot, and balance between science and taxes. You don't make a lot of money on tech trading in the Middle Ages. After you make it to the Industrial Era, all of a sudden there are certain techs that the AI will pay exorbitant funds for. So ... be the first into the Industrial Era, trade the key techs for large sums, build the Theory of Evolution, and lead the way into the Modern Era, hopefully with a large treasury, which you are going to need.

Once you're in the Modern Era, keep the research up. And, you'll need lots of money to buy techs at this point. At least the AI's rarely trade techs amongst themselves (not like the early Ages where they practically give them away to each other!) So you can pay the high price for a tech, and then trade it off to recoup some of your cost. I try to develop along Computers, Fission, Nuclear Power and The Laser because the AI's usually go for Rocketry - Space Flight or Ecology - Synthetic Fibers. If I hold the unique space tech, then only I can finish the spaceship. Trading, and keeping unique techs to yourself is important.
 
I'm talking about spaceships launching in the 15th and 16th centuries in GOTM 10! Clearly these players set out to win by an early spaceship launch and I'm interested in their strategy.

You need strong partners to share the research costs but not so strong that they will be a threat to you. You need a lot of peace to keep the AI out of Communism which usually marks the end of their research capacity. You need the space and infrastructure to allow you to research quicly and build parts efficiently.

Its a problem juggling all those to get the FASTEST POSSIBLE spaceship.

I can win by spaceship every gane on levels up to and including emperor level but I cant come anywhere near those times.

Any advice, Aeson? I know you've been investigating this.
 
That's easy in chieftain mode.
set spending gold to research so much as you can. Sell older technologies, and surplus resources. When you get more income, increase research spending. If rivals have techs, try to buy.
Sell everything - ROP, MPP, your territory (better to sell your territory and your techs to all rivals in same turn)
And.... expand your empire. More cities, more gold, more fast research.
(I suppose, you build library and university and switch gov to the republic or democracy)
 
The theory is reasonable - but have you tried to get a launch before 1600?? It aint quite that easy.
 
To get the techs to complete the spaceship in time I suggest the easiest way is to play the Russians because they are expansionist and scientific.
Don't choose Islands.
The first thing to do is create an additional 2 scouts.
With these 3 scouts you can get many techs from the native villages.
I concentrate my research on Literature, Monarchy and Horsemanship.
As a scientific CIV you will get an extra tech when progressing to each new age.
Don't build the Great Library as you need to be the tech leader.
Don't research dead end techs like Chivalry or the Repubic- buy or extort these from other CIVs.
Make a beeline for either Democacy for Science output or Military Tradition for Cossacks.
Before progressing to a new age or completing the Theory of Evolution buy or extort as many of the quick to get techs from other CIVs.
I usually have Science on 50-80%.
Switch Off the Cultural Domination win as I find with all the librarys and universities I need to build for techs and the temples and cathedrals to keep citizens happy I usually get the
Cultural domination win before I can launch my spaceship.
 
Tournament/GOTM rules dont allow you to switch off any of the other wins! I've never reached a cultural win before 1700 so I dont think it would be much of a problem here.
 
GOTM10 was on Regent wasn't it? On Regent it's almost all up to the player, the AI isn't going to help you get to a ~1500AD launch at all, so just ignore them for the most part once you've cut out your optimal number of cities empire. I like to go about 1/3rd ICS, where cities have 10-12 tiles each, and are spaced 2 tiles from at least one other city. This way a Settler can make it to a new city site on the first turn, and build the city on the second. Most of the workable tiles will be used by the end of the Ancient Era.

If you do a bit of warmongering early, a GL can really help in placing the FP. Usually there is time to build an Archer inbetween Settlers early on, and after Temples are built there is a bit of a lull until Libraries are available. I like to use this time to do all the warfaring for the whole game. The main goal is to carve out an empire, a GL is just a plus.

The sooner you can get into a Republic, the better. I find that a 40 turn Alphabet to start (or Writing if you're Commercial) gets enough spare change so that you can almost keep 100% tax rate throughout the rest of the game. By the time your initial treasury has run dry, you should have made it to Mapmaking (give the AI's Writing and Pottery, and they'll research it for you while you get Literacy, then head for Republic). After that, sell your maps (make sure to do some exploring of course) for a couple gold per turn from each Civ. If one of the AI's starts to build up a bit of a treasury, sell a Tech to them, even if it's just 20 gold. Every once in a while they'll research something first, which helps. It won't happen much on Monarch and below if you're doing it right though. Once in a Republic it's sometimes a good idea to back off the research a little bit to rush Libraries with gold. How much depends on the game, and how much gold you're getting from the AI's. At most it should take about 20 turns to get Libraries built in every productive city. Before in a Republic the Libraries don't do all that much, and should be building Settlers as much as possible.

Wonders are almost all a waste, the only time they are worth building is if everything else you can build is built. Copernicus and Newtons with the Collosus is nice, but not if you had to delay building your Library or University to get them. The only ones that are must have is the UN, just to control the vote, and ToE obviously. Once a city has their improvements (enough happiness to stay productive, library, university) you can go ahead and irrigate everything they are using. Turn the excess population into researchers. Research Labs are the only other thing to build really, the rest is just waiting. If you're religious (or on a low difficulty), switch to Democracy, otherwise it's not worth it. Don't research it on your own, just wait for the AI to get there and then trade. Sanitation and Literacy are really the only two 'unecessary' techs you should research.

In the Industrial age, try to build up a bit of a tech lead. Don't sell any Techs until you have built ToE, this way you can hold off on building it as long as possible. In GOTM10 the techs I got from ToE were Radio and Motorized Transportation IIRC. If you have a good lead, you may want to save it for the first couple of Modern Tecs even.

The rest is really just timing pre-builds. Try to have your low production cities that will be building parts start the first ones, then switch to the bigger parts later one. That allows your high production cities to quickly finish the smaller parts by about the same time the others finish. SETI and Manhattan are good prebuilds too. I like to have mostly finished Colloseum's building in all my cities going into the Modern age, to switch to research labs. Depends on how quickly you can research Computers just when to start them. Then rush the rest with gold (by now the AI's should be keeping you rather rich).

In GOTM10 I didn't get a GL, so I built the FP about 10 tiles away from the Palace. Not optimal in any sense of the word, but I built it very early (I think city number 5 started on the prebuild for it right when it was founded, finished before 500BC IIRC). I tried to build as many wonders as possible though, which slowed things down a bit. A GL in my limited fighting might have cut another 50 years off the date, but it was pretty close to as quick as a Regent launch is going to come. On Deity (and to some extent on Emperor) it's completely different of course.

If you can get your FP built, have switched to Republic, and have about 30-40 cities (adjusted for mapsize) with Libraries before hitting the AD's you're well on your way. It's just about getting a feel for the map/difficulty, and then timing things right.

(some of this may not be quite right, it's been a while and I don't have my saves anymore for exact timing... but it's the general idea)
 
I downloaded the saves, the 10AD one wasn't there, but the final one is. If you look at the replay and the city improvement dates (use the cultural advisor) you can pretty much get a gist of the timing I used in the game. I broke a lot of the 'rules' in my last post, building Libraries a bit too soon, slowing down expansion.. and my FP is even closer to the capitol than I thought.

Here's the save, for anyone who doesn't want to have to download the whole 30MB GOTM archive file. :)
 
Thanks Aeson. Just in time for the next round of the tournament!


I guess I spend too much time warfaring in the midgame era.

I had planned to have a couple of high production cores and everywhere else ICS as tight as possible with libraries and unis.
 
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