Buy off warmongering penalty with tourism/culture?

[Fabio1701]

I dig the casus belli, but imho it for not make enough of a difference because I still have everyone pissed at me for taking over Greece back in 400ad after a 600 year war, and it's freaking 1875ad now. So much so that any industrial age war casus belli makes no difference in on whether the penalty is severe or heavy because I'm so hated anyway.

Irl this makes no sense. The whole world is not pissed off at Germany now because the ostrogoths took the western to man empire. There needs to be a way to reduce warmonger penalty faster. Im still getting denounced for actions over 1000 years old!!!

Irl hegemonies like USA and Russia (And other imperial powers before) wage all kinds of unjust wars and yet do not suffer from the inability to do basic diplomacy because of all the hate. This is because the export cultural values and propaganda through their media. Wouldn't it be cool to simulate that in civ6? You could sacrifice tourism (Or maybe culture, But I think tourism is better of this) to buy off warmingrring. It gives an incentive for militant civs to build culture stuff too.

 

[RealAntithesis]

I would agree, If only because it will provide some use for tourism - which does nothing for me since I turn off the Cultural Victory. In fact, tourism should also give wealth, since the tourists are spending money and contributing to the economy.

 

[diamond geezer]

The odd thing is that you can do something about your own war weariness, but, as you note, there's nothing you can do about other civilizations and there ought to be. Meanwhile, you just conquer the lot and then it doesn't matter.

 

[Victoria]

"taking over Greece" So you took about 5 cities... and will take about 100 turns to remove most of that negative. Serves you right for being greedy. The Romans were much hated in the same way for taking over Greece.
Of course if you razed any cities that would also cripple you.
For a toourism victory you really only need happy civs at the end.

I do really like the idea of tourism speeding up the reduction. It would be a great additional dynamic.

 

[Fabio1701]

haha! not so much greedy, as pragmatic. I was fully prepared to live with them peacefully on our continent, just the two of us in friendship, and they decided to attack me. Their recklessness cost them their sovereignty and showed that only one civ, the mighty Germans, could control the continent. No raising done, just subjugation. And all well before the renaissance. It was indeed just under 100 negative points, I took 4 cities (athens twice). and absolutely ridiculous that I am still hated even though I have never waged war since then. (some tried to invade my continetn but I beat them back and never was aggressive).

Considering Rome razed Carthage and yet everyone loves Italian wine and cars, I think I deserve some leniency.

 

[Stringer1313]

I like this idea so long as tourism alone cannot completely obliterate war mongering penalties. I actually don't necessarily mind the initial war mongering penalties , but there needs to be more ways to reduce that penalty. Perhaps all warmongering penalties are reduced by half when you've advanced an era?

 

[Fabio1701]

I agree. I was thinking about eras speeding the reduction, but I considered that people will play the system by timing wars at era changes or something.

Perhaps tourism and culture need to be paid together. And you did it directly per other civ and need trade routes to them. Perhaps 1 warmongering penalty point can be bought off with x tourism + y culture to one civ6. This simulates the propaganda being directed and means it is actually quite expensive to do it with all civs.

 

[Victoria]

100 turns of penalties for killing a race is not bad really. I think people just overdo it. Sure they attack you... do not kill them, just raze all their land until the give you a nice city. You get 0 penalties that way and mess them up big time. If there is a city in a key position then take it. Its only 20-30 turns of dislike.

 

[Fabio1701]

but but but! It's MY continent!

Actually it has been Pericles twice who started next to me and sneak attacked me even as I was trying to be nice. I hate that guy. I think it's because I get quests of city states he wants to become suzerain of ,even without trying. It's not y fault man! Have the bloody CS!

Thing is that 100 turns takes you through many eras, it's simply unrealistic that the subjugation of a people (as opposed to razing) creates such a long backlash worldwide with no way to counter it.It simply doesn't follow real history. And even when its down to around -30 after many eras its enough for them to stop trading with you and sneak attack you.

 

[Victoria]

I see where you are coming from and respect your point of view and gameplay.
I used to never attack and suffered for it because this game, especially early does encourage it somewhat.
I just found that 100 turns is too long and so I just take a different tack. Smack their army to pieces then destroy all their improvements and maybe take 1 strategic city ( you just have to take the capital for domination) and they will never bother you seriously again. Thats my approach and seems to work where the rest of the world still trades with me.

People seem fixated on teching them a lesson.... No better lesson than leaving them starving and destitute.... And teaching a computer a lesson does not compute well in my brain.

 

[Fabio1701]

I took the same strategy as you after the greek war. I wanted to see how long it would take for me to get on everybody's good side be being nice, and everyone was waging war on my so I had to just pillage them until the surrender. IT's the only way of waging a 'just' war. So I see your point. It's just that the casus belli system gave me the impression that you could be a imperialist bastard in ancient times and not suffer for it in modern times. Apparently not.

 

[Victoria]

Oh the colonial Casus Belli is great, especially for culture.
I am nearing a culture endgame but Kongo is ahead of me. (as this is a culture thread)
I try a troll city first - A city smack up against their borders with a couple of frigates nearby and the city one turn away from city walls. I also stop all trade with them and make sure I have no existing trade deal.
This seems to be enough often for them to declare war but if it is not enough I can Casus them and raise their food tiles and let them starve and do nlot stop until they gve me a decent amount of their tourist loot. It is mainly the reduction in population I am after as their domestic tourism is growing too fast, but the loot also helps.
Sure some borders close to me for a wee bit but the secret is to have lots of luxuries and they all come back soon enough.
It is a game of finer points and brutal city taking is tempting but punishing.
City Smacking is much more fun and get you lots of loot through raising, especially if you swap a card or two... finer ponts once again.
I hint at this in the tourism guide but the guide was so large I really did not think I could make it larger.

 

[HuskyPeter]

i like the idea. its a good idea.

 

[Psychalgia]

I like the idea but...
The big issue with spending culture is that culture affects your border growth for cities.

Creating something like culture (science, faith, ect...) and adding that to the game would be more logical. I would rather spend that on
reducing warmonger via a diplomat unit. That also would need more buildings and tile improvements to produce the points in that new category.

The diplomat could run missions like the spy and improve relations or sour relations between civs.
The diplomat could then be bought with the points earned in that category.
The diplomat would have charges like the builder, limit the units lifetime, this way you have to build or spend points to create.

I do agree the warmonger penalty should have a better mechanism for reducing it.

 

[VeronicaCardican]

I could see that working out if you had to expend a great writer in the process (he or she is writing a terribly good story about why that war was justified). That would put theater squares to good use for warmongers and you would have to expend something valuable in the process.

 

[Victoria]

Just thinking about it. Culture is not a coin you can use,it is an inherent pregression si I have changed my mind.
Something else perhaps.
Steamroller dominators are already rolling in culture and so its not hard for them to spend lots.
I think diplomats are an under used feature at the moment amd so sending diplomats to civs to reduce WM makes much more sense and you have tonsacrifice CS envoys to do so - unless you just killed them all anyway in which case I think nah... In fact once you have taken over half the world the other civs shoukd perma hate you in my view as you are then visible as a global threat to everyone.
Something to encourage the limited taking out of key cities rather than genocidal maniac.