C3 Vanillia - Conquered cities keep flipping

[CommandoBob]

Ok, so next question - how long should I campaign against a specific civ? Should I push on till I've destroyed them, or sign a peace treaty once they give me favorable terms then come after them again once I've reorganized my forces?

Post a save and let the experts here help you out. They'll give you the advice but you still get to play the game.

 

[Cleverbeans]

Ok here is the saved file. Please be aware this is unpatched Vanilla so may have some version compatibility issues. I've just taken Paris and my goal is to hit all the core French cities and leave them isolated up with the Russians then switch to Republic and focus on infrastructure.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/118223/Rome_-_CURRENT.SAV

 

[d_profesor]

I don't agree with this, I find them to be excellent at wearing down units outside of cities, and also for defensive purposes. Unless you have 500 of them bombarding a city though, they're not likely to be of much use in that situation, since they almost always fail.

I agree that cats have almost fail when bombing a city. But 500 is a very large number. i dont aggree with that number. Cats is not that bad...

I usually play as Rome and 5 catapult in a group of army (legion) is useful to attack a small or medium enemy city. Even just one of them that able to injure the defender, i found that very useful. They made legionary more easier for taking any city. So that.. in any good composition, Cats are useful and effecive. Additonally, Cats is cheap.

 

[Bartleby]

...Please be aware this is unpatched Vanilla...

Is there a reason for this? I would strongly recommend you patch to 1.29f. Better yet, buy Conquests.


edit: without havng looked at the save, my response to your question about conquering or not would be that it depends. Early in the game it's usually enough to beat them up a bit until they'll give you tech or cities for peace (you should only expect them to give up size 1 towns or AA tech, mind). Later in the game I prefer to eliminate them unless War Weariness is becoming too much to hande, them I make peace and finish the job later.
One reason you might consider keeping them alive is if they are scientific; when you reach a new era you can gift them technology and then trade for their free tech (if memory serves this technique is less useful in Vanilla because they always get the same tech).

 

[Rising Star]

I agree that cats have almost fail when bombing a city. But 500 is a very large number. i dont aggree with that number. Cats is not that bad...

I usually play as Rome and 5 catapult in a group of army (legion) is useful to attack a small or medium enemy city. Even just one of them that able to injure the defender, i found that very useful. They made legionary more easier for taking any city. So that.. in any good composition, Cats are useful and effecive. Additonally, Cats is cheap.

I exaggerated the number a lot, but my point is that they fail in bombarding cities the vast majority of the time. They're useful, but they're better as a defensive unit than an offensive one, IMO.

You're right, cats are cheap, which is why I tend to build a tonne of them even if I have no intention of using them, just so they can be upgraded later.

 

[d_profesor]

I exaggerated the number a lot, but my point is that they fail in bombarding cities the vast majority of the time. They're useful, but they're better as a defensive unit than an offensive one, IMO.

You're right, cats are cheap, which is why I tend to build a tonne of them even if I have no intention of using them, just so they can be upgraded later.

yes, you meant a lot. But I've count that if you attack a city with five cats. At least i found that one of them must be succed Since small - medium enemy city are usually garrioned with 3 defend unit, I'm pretty happy for that. thats mean a lot.. was it ?

 

[Rising Star]

I tend to need at least ten cats to make a dent in a medium sized city. Maybe it has to do with the difficulty level, or even the terrain.

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . my point is that they fail in bombarding cities the vast majority of the time. They're useful, but they're better as a defensive unit than an offensive one, IMO.

First of all, welcome to CFC, Rising Star!

I'd have to disagree with this assessment. I do find that 5 cats is usually too few, but 10 or so are awfully helpful in softening up defenders. They're also useful in counting defenders if I'm attacking cities that I couldn't investigate.

I almost never use cats defensively, however. This is primarily because I try very hard not to let any AI units get close enough to my cities that a cat could hit hit them.

 

[Cleverbeans]

Is there a reason for this? I would strongly recommend you patch to 1.29f. Better yet, buy Conquests.

When I patched to 1.29f the program kept telling me to put the CD into the drive when it was already in the drive.

 

[d_profesor]

I tend to need at least ten cats to make a dent in a medium sized city. Maybe it has to do with the difficulty level, or even the terrain.

Btw, I play demigod level. Its true that there's a time when they all failed. If it happened, sometimes i waited for the next turn (depend on how many legionary in the group, I play rome), and attack the city again. I think, 5 legionary + 5 cat is enough for taking city that have 3 best defender (greece hopilite). I need more legion if hopilite is not regular (veteran,elite). I need less if the city just has spearman.

 

[Rising Star]

@ Aabraxan; See my post immediately prior to yours. I tend to need ten to make a dent in a medium sized city. Since I prefer other methods of conquest, this isn't much use to me. I too use them to count defenders. The way I use them for defense, is to send a group of offensive units, such as swordsmen or archers, to attack a city, with a group of cats joining them. This way, any counter-attacks by the enemy are weakened by my cats bombarding them as they come at me. This is especially useful if the opposing civ has swordsmen or better themselves.

@ d professor; I'm not entirely sure what level demigod is, as it isn't on Gold, but I usually compete at emperor, sometimes lower if I'm trying a new mod or a different technique. The other day I accidentally played a game on chieftain, it took me half an hour to figure out how I was winning so easily. You use a much smaller amount of cats for city conquest than me by the sound of things, but I tend to conquer cities with no more than three swordsmen, let alone legions, which have greater defence against counter-attacks.

 

[d_profesor]

First of all, welcome to CFC, Rising Star!

I'd have to disagree with this assessment. I do find that 5 cats is usually too few, but 10 or so are awfully helpful in softening up defenders. They're also useful in counting defenders if I'm attacking cities that I couldn't investigate.

I almost never use cats defensively, however. This is primarily because I try very hard not to let any AI units get close enough to my cities that a cat could hit hit them.

Of course that 10 is more more better. But 5 is nice too. depend on the conditon. I prefered spread army in several group than concentrate army in a large group when attack the AI. It's more quick.In a war, I usually attack through 3 weak point. Left side, midle, right side. So that, 10 cats in a group is too many.

 

[Rising Star]

I do that if I'm going for a large chunk of territory, or on a pangaea map, but I prefer to play archipelago, so it's far more difficult to attack multiple points at a time. I prefer to attack, raze the city or transport a large number of defenders if I want to keep it, then get my people the hell out of there and attack from a different point. If done correctly, and if the terrain permits, you can conquer a whole empire without even moving a single troop more than one tile on land.

 

[d_profesor]

Demigod one level under deity. and two leve under sid (hardest) I play Conquer. I found its very hard to defeat 3 hopilite in a city, even you have 5 legion. Thats why i need cats for supporting legionary.

 

[Mursi lives]

Unfortunatly we are talking here about vanilla cats and they seem to be much less effective than their conquest counterparts.
I made the same mistake earlier in this thread. I should really remember that vanilla and conquest are 2 entirely different games.

 

[ALA Gator]

Hello Civ fans,

I'm having a problem with my Monarch level game when I decide to declare war on my closest neighbor. I'm playing the Romans and my plan is to grab as much land as possible, have a lot of workers build roads and improve squares and build barracks/legions until I have enough troops to effectively storm the first three cities (7 units/city has been my standard). Once I get ready for war, I build walls to help with defense on my frontal cities.

This part has been working very well for me, however the problem I'm having is that after I conquer the cities, they "admire" their home civilization and switch back. It's really annoying to put 7 units into a city and have it defect taking half my army with it.

Any advice?

After you conquer a city, you need to start building your civ's culture in it. At most I leave 1-2 units to garrison the city and immediately begin a temple or library and rush it if possible after a few turns. I also try to starve the population down while it is in resistance.

 

[iambenben]

when i attack other civs i usually beat them down and finish them off totally

if im going for a diplomatic win then i often just go for the resources