C3C 1.22 Forbidden Palace: What's the hell?!!

[SVAN]

Dear fellow players,
I just started with an updated version of C3C (conquests) - version 1.22. I am less interested in pre-loaded "Conquests" and prefer playing a big game on a random map (by editor). Just yesterday I came to the point there I can have a Forbidden Palace. And what do I see? I reduces corruption only in one city!!! Not in the whole region as it was in version 1.00. Seem like the corruption reduction rate in courthouses is increased in 1.22 from about 10% to about 20%, but this is clearly not compensating enough!!! So, seems like it is now rather impossible to win by conquest in huge map, ha!?

Any advises? Please? I hate to reinstall 1.00 game back! And I do not like winning by culture, always preferred war.

Thanks a lot in advance!
SVAN

 

[Capt Buttkick]

The FP is indeed a lot weaker in C3C.
It's worth the build anyway cause it increases the OCN (optimal city number) of your civ. C3C is a lot different from vanilla Civ, so basically you'll have to relearn the game. It's worth it, though and you'll be able to win on as high a level as you used to, with practice. Good luck

 

[Longasc]

The corruption concept changed.

Communism is now much more effective (hint).

The FP no longer gives a 2nd core. You must place it in the 50-60% corruption area (with courthouses), otherwise the surrounding cities will simply be to corrupt for real gain.

But overall you should experience less severe corruption problems that prior to 1.15/1.22.

Just give it a try.

 

[punkbass2000]

Yes, I usually place it in the 3rd-4th ring of cities.

 

[Longasc]

I hope you only took this as an image - Ring City Placement to reduce corruption no longer works in C3C 1.22.

 

[punkbass2000]

I hope you only took this as an image

Not sure what you mean by this, but yes I know RCP doesn't work (never played a game where it has.)

 

[Grille]

As in vanilla and PTW, c3c has also both city rank and capital distance corruption.

In C3C, the rank determination has changed. Rank corruption is (and used to be) the more serious part of corruption.
A city's rank is dependent on capital distance. The closer a city's distance to the palace, the lower its rank. Founding date is used as tie-breaker between 2 or more cities with same distance.
The FP does not influence any city's rank number. You get a OCN bonus and a second center of reference for distance corruption (plus FP city itself is almost uncorrupted).

If your capital is surrounded by lots of cities (i.e. many cities' rank numbers above OCN) on a big home continent, you would not feel an effect on cities on another remote continent (with OCN overkill city ranks) in case you put the FP there (except for the city that built FP).
On your home continent, you would of course still see decreasing corruption. Seeing the big picture, the FP really helps.

So by placing the FP, you can't possibly improve commerce/corruption in some special region at your choice. You could only do that by building a new palace in that region, which would likely turn your former core into a corruption hell though...

The more or less optimal spot for the FP would be a region with relative low rank-, but relative high distance corruption.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The original question was about how the FP did change between c3c 1.0 and 1.22

Well, in 1.0 the FP indeed improved the cities around it - but lots of originally better cities suffered from corruption once it was build. Overall corruption and waste was about the same with or without the FP, you only gained one corruption-free city. But since you lost most of your core production, most players hated it, and didn't even built the FP.
1.22 works as described above.

 

[dojoboy]

The corruption concept changed.

Furthermore, corruption in C3C 1.22 w/ the FP is what Firaxis had intended from the start, IIRC. They never meant for the FP to behave as a second palace, but only has a corruption reducing improvement. The old way isn't realistic in terms of RL. The further one is away from authority, the looser are the controls.

 

[Mgoering]

Personnaly, I place the FP in the center of a productive area, just like your capital should be. This usually is the capital city (or one next to it) of a conquered civ.

However, I don't know about the 1.22 version.

 

[gunkulator]

It doesn't matter much where you place the FP in C3C so go ahead and build it in one of your already productive cities.

 

[Tassadar]

So firaxis again remove the fun from the game, good i never bought ptw neither c3c.

The fun i was talking about was to get a great leader from a conquest war and rush built a forbiden palace into their former capital, getting a second core of cities without corruption.

Insteed of fixing bug , they remove some of the best feaure from the game. I remember it took 1 year before they fix the sam missile battery, but after only a few month, they were already patching some of what they call player exploit.

 

[dojoboy]

The fun i was talking about was to get a great leader from a conquest war and rush built a forbiden palace into their former capital, getting a second core of cities without corruption.

Right, I undestand, But, many players want realism as well. What you're describing, and what I have done myself, would be kin to the USA being able to create a corrupt free region in present-day Baghdad, Iraq. Not likely.

 

[Tassadar]

Right, I undestand, But, many players want realism as well. What you're describing, and what I have done myself, would be kin to the USA being able to create a corrupt free region in present-day Baghdad, Iraq. Not likely.

But the coruption model in civ 3 is not realist from the start, do los angeles more corupted then washington ? no, so why did they indroduce this massive coruption factor base on distance/number of cities ? to avoid infinite city sprawl exploit.

At least with vanila civ 3 , you can expect a few more cities without beeing 50 % corrupted. Do you think a democratic modern city realy have 50 % corruption rate ?

If Zouave was still here, he would have rants a lots more on this coruption model.

 

[dojoboy]

Well not 50%, you're right. But, it's more likely an application of the idea to simulate all levels of corruption. From the bartender who gives away free drinks to his friends to the state representative who leaks bids, etc. Another application of it is to handicap the warmongers, not that it's effective.

 

[bingen]

I like the new corruption model better. Also it is perhaps the only change in Conquests that favors the AI players (the AIs never learned to abuse RCP and the FP).

 

[Bloodied66]

If you have a huge empire, try communism out. I was playing on a huge Pangea, and my empire stretched across the whole world, more than 50% of the tiles, and well over 100 cities. The worst corruption was something like 30-40%. This meant that my far away cities (1 shield under demo), were now producing like 15-20 shields, without a factory. It really is quite cool the first time you see it.