Can a vassal state win the game ?

[Eul_Bofo]

Hi.

I have a good game with Elizabeth, on a huge pangea map (Prince level, I'm quite new to Civ 4). There are several opps around me : the Malian and the Japanese are enthousiastic, the Khmer is dubious and Chaka is of course angry !

The Malian and the Khmer were second on score, just behind me, the Malian being a faith friend, I attacked the Khmer. Just before crushing a good town, he became Chaka's vassal, and I was forced to withdraw my projects.

Next, during some diplomatic discussion, I noticed that the Malian proposed to become Vassal ! I accepted, seeing one of my biggest threat becoming a puppet.

Now I start to regret it : he is quite ahead of me in terms of science AND military development, and he refuses to give his best science to me ! I'm ahead in terms of territory, but I'm afraid he's going to win the space race.

Can he do that ? And what can I do to prevent this to happen ? I'm concentrating on a domination victory, hoping it's not too late.

Can you precise exactly what things a vassal state can and cannot do (for example can he WIN the game ?) ?

Thank you.

\bye

Eul_Bofo

 

[Desert-Fox]

welcome to the boards!

yes he can win by diplomacy, culture and space race.
They cannot start a war themself.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

You can start a war with the neighbor that is closest to him. Send no aid and only defend your borders. He will likely lose some border cities and opt out of the vassalage agreement. Then you should DOW on him and take out his production cities (or rampage all his improvements). He can absolutely win as a vassal. He can win Cultural, Space Race, or Diplomacy.

If no rivals near him, then spam spies and send them all over his empire and ravage it. Spread sickness, unhappiness, destroy improvements and fortify spies in many cities. Eventually, he will start getting (-) diplomatic relations with you and break the agreement.

 

[BlueSoxSWJ]

Can't you direct the research of a vassal? If so, avoid Space techs. In theory he could get them via trade, but AFAIK the AIs all refuse to trade SS enabling techs anyways.

 

[GravityWave]

Ramp up the EPs against him then steal his techs and blow up his spaceship parts.

 

[Peteyboy]

Good old mass spies will work a charm for losing relations and as a bonus it seems to be unlimited (I saw 2 comps the other day and 1 showed -37 in the your spy was caught causing trouble - made me chuckle)

I've always felt somehow that vassal aspect is annoying the fact although you can direct their research, I feel there ought to be a way of acquiring Technology from them at a cheaper rate or something, cos apart from military and resource reasons becoming a master isn't necessarily that useful.

 

[Hoticehunter]

If no rivals near him, then spam spies and send them all over his empire and ravage it. Spread sickness, unhappiness, destroy improvements and fortify spies in many cities. Eventually, he will start getting (-) diplomatic relations with you and break the agreement.

If he's vassal by capitulation, I don't think it matters how much or little the vassal hates you. As long as he's under half your pop and land area, and doesn't get brought down to less than half the land area he started, he can hate you all he wants and still not be able to break away.

It sounds like the guy offered vassalage on his own, which I believe works differently. Something like, the vassal renews he vassalage contract every 10 turns. In that case, making him hate you using spies would work.

You could always demand every resource he has and hope he refuses, thus canceling the deal and immediately going to war.

And while you may not be able to do much about keeping your vassal from a cultural victory, you can keep him from a space victory by simply choosing what he researches and making him research future tech as long as is needed while never letting him research fusion. (IIRC future tech doesn't need fusion, though I may be wrong there, though there should be one spaceship part tech that you don't need for future tech)

 

[GooglyBoogly]

You kind of can acquire tech at a cheaper rate.
The cost of researching any given tech is reduced slightly for every other civ that has the tech. So by getting a vassal to research it first, it will cost you (and the other AI) slightly less. It is a small bonus, but every bit counts!

 

[Civsassin]

I had Gilgamesh and Hathesput as my vassals. I had huge production capacity advantage and was cruising towards a space race victory vice fight an intercontinental war. I launched my space ship fully equipped, and I was within four turns of winnning. I wasn't paying much attention to my vassals as I was concerned about the other "competitive" civs. All of a sudden "Hathesput has won a Culture victory" appeared: absolutely crushing after having dominated the entire game from soup to nuts.

Watch your vassals. She asked me to become my vassal early because she was being harassed by Gilgamesh. I accepted, so I wouldn't have to worry about her as I was whooping Willem van Oranje and later Gilgamesh.

Within four turns of one of my best games.

 

[thadian]

Hi. Ghandi, my vassal, just won the space race.

I reloaded and spied out his space race, and he won a diplomatic victory!

I accepted my fate.

 

[jojobaker]

Yup if you become a vassal you can still win and sometimes its smart to become vassal because then you are protected by someone else if you don't want war.

 

[civmademepoor]

I find it terribly annoying when my own colony wins a diplomatic victory. That's just not right.

 

[Supr49er]

Yes they can win.

Welcome to the Forums Eul_Bofo.

 

[L4zybugg3r]

If you needed to lose a vassal you could always declare war on someone then leave some cities vacant so that your vassal reaches 50% land mass and population and breaks free. Then you can attack them. This would have to be a last resort though.

 

[Astaldo711]

I always used to have the opposite problem. I'd get a vassal and after a while they'd just end the alliance. No idea why. Most of the time I'd end of going to war with them. They got too arrogant! "What are you going to do about it?"

 

[thadian]

they might meet the terms to end the vassalage - if they do, its their choice and not yours.

Or another AI might have demanded them to be their vassal instead, or as unlikely as it seems, the vassal might have enough of a power ranking.