Can anyone read Chinese??

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Tassadar
ok, it is more a phoenitical language, i mean i can spech english with a french accent, but speaking chinese need exectly the right sound to have the appropriate meaning. Right ?

Mandarin and all the different dialects are all based on the same Chinese script - that's the beauty of a unified script. We all pronounce it differently, but can still communicate via the written script.

Yes, I think it's based heavily on phonetics - one portion. Also new characters can be formed by combining two old ones. Like for 'ming' - brilliant - it's made up of 'ri' - sun - on the left and 'yue' - moon - on the right.

I think there's 1 or 2 more methods used to come up with new Chinese characters, apart fr the aforementioned 2.

 

[Mrogreturns]

Originally posted by XIII
I don't know what katakana is, but there's only one Chinese script.

Katakana is a phonetic alphabet used to write non-Japanese words (as well as some other things sometimes). For example the term "moral crisis" has recently entered use in Japanese, perhaps becasue it is shorter \ more convenient that the native Japanese way of expressing that concept. So in the written form- you just spell our "moral crisis"- or an approximation of it in katakana.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Mrogreturns
Hmm- sounds like these characters work ina a somewhat similar way to katakana in Japanese. But being characters- don't they also have an inherent meaning as well as a pronounciation?

Also- do Chinese characters have only a single pronounciation?

Last questions - I promise

Inherent meaning yes, but pronounciation depends on which dialect you're using. The same character can sound different, in Cantonese and Mandarin e.g.

Also, there're the Chinese proverbs, which are a short-cut way to squeeze whole concepts and sentences into 4 character quotes. Like I said, the Chinese language really focuses on economic of usage.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Originally posted by Mrogreturns
Katakana is a phonetic alphabet used to write non-Japanese words (as well as some other things sometimes). For example the term "moral crisis" has recently entered use in Japanese, perhaps becasue it is shorter \ more convenient that the native Japanese way of expressing that concept. So in the written form- you just spell our "moral crisis"- or an approximation of it in katakana.

Then, nope. We Chinese don't use any such phonetic tools...

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by XIII
Mandarin and all the different dialects are all based on the same Chinese script - that's the beauty of a unified script. We all pronounce it differently, but can still communicate via the written script.

Yes, I think it's based heavily on phonetics - one portion. Also new characters can be formed by combining two old ones. Like for 'ming' - brilliant - it's made up of 'ri' - sun - on the left and 'yue' - moon - on the right.

1.- Cool, written language is always better for communication, you are not interupted and have more time to explain exactly what you mean.

2.- We have a phonetic writing in french and i always said, we should use that insteed of grammar, the phonetic is in the dictionary to help the pronounciation and is exempt of irregularity,

exemple; attention in french should be written atansion in a phonetical way, why do we write a ''t" pronounced like an 's" is an irregularity or exeption.

edit: my phonetic writing of attention maybe wrong, my cheap dictionary doesnt have it.

 

[stratego]

There are however tools that help with pronounciation, like pinyin, which are written almost like the english alphabet. These however, are not chinese characters, and you'll only see them in textbooks when learning a new word. There are other systems that helps with pronounciation, but I forgot what they are called. It's been so long since I took a Chinese class.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

The hanyu pinyin tool can be helpful in learning the language, but it's no substitute for the real thing. Particularly when it's only up to the sound and tone level - not the individual characters for each sound at each tone.

The 'best' way to learn spoken Chinese is simply to speak it often. Spoken-form only - I think it's quite easy to master.

 

[Tassadar]

Yes the key is to write what you pronounce, that's what an old teacher said to me.

So the phonetic langage is better IMO.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by XIII


The 'best' way to learn spoken Chinese is simply to speak it often. Spoken-form only - I think it's quite easy to master.

Yes, total immersion is the best way, if you want the baby learn to swim, throw him into the pool.

I am waiting for an invitation from you, i hope you have errr a sister. j/k

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by XIII


Like for 'ming' - brilliant - it's made up of 'ri' - sun - on the left and 'yue' - moon - on the right.

I forgot that quote in my previous post.

It is like poetry, very charming.

 

[Qitai]

Originally posted by Tassadar


Ok , i guess the first one mean '' penis" and second ''poison".

But now how do you make a difference between gonore or chlamydia from syphilis ????

Wrong guess. The first one reads Mei(2) which can mean plum or some other words depending what it is combine with.

 

[Qitai]

Originally posted by Mrogreturns


good question- is there any equivalent of katakana in Chinese?

Hanyu PingYin is the closest it can get. Japanese use Katagana for both pronuociation of their own writting as well as foreign lanaguages. Chinese use Hanyu Pingyin only for pronoucing Chinese Writing. Additionally, Taiwanese uses ZhuYin which is even closer to Katagana since it uses simple character (just like Katagana) instead of alphabets for basic pheonetics.

Nouns in Foreign languages usually has a Chinese equivalent. Names like Alice usually are translated using words that sound similar (In this case, Ai(4) Li(4) Si(1) ) since these words are meaningless to the Chinese.

 

[Qitai]

Anyway, a typical Chinese learns the written language through plain hard work - writting the scripts over and over again. Homework in the old days can simply means writing those 20 scripts you learn today 100 times each.

This is, however, fading. The newer generations of Chinese are reluctant to go through that in general. Reading is, however, easier since it is similar to how your recognized a word in English.

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by Tassadar
Yes the key is to write what you pronounce, that's what an old teacher said to me.

So the phonetic langage is better IMO.

No.
Langage is a bit more than just a tool. It's a whole way of forming the mind.
Phonetic language is, by essence, poor and without history. The exceptions and irregularities of a living one that is not merely a phonetic writing allows knowledge of the origins of language, better inner understanding of the essence of the words, and in the whole, richer language.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by XIII
I don't know what katakana is, but there's only one Chinese script. No short-form, or what.

Normally, you just need to know about 2000 characters to be able to read the newspaper. You don't even need to know exactly how each looks like - I just see how they're arranged sometimes to figure out the 'word'.

It's rather hard to explain, in Western terms...

Katakana is the Japanese phonetic equivalent of foreign words (including Chinese). It was first derived in Buddist texts by monks IIRC (from my Japanese class). Look at Grey Fox's avatar (the top of it) for katakana. So, a Chinese word like, Xin could be Shin in Japanese. Sometimes, the kanji equivalent of the Chinese character changes, or is simplified (or even written differently in handwriting).

BTW, I can't read Chinese, but I can understand the characters. For example, that one with "poison", the word before it is "plum" in Japanese. So, "plum (type of fruit) poison" is what I read it as. So, without the knowledge of the Chinese word, I can't really read it, except that there's some poison that's like a plum.

Yes, I think it's based heavily on phonetics - one portion. Also new characters can be formed by combining two old ones. Like for 'ming' - brilliant - it's made up of 'ri' - sun - on the left and 'yue' - moon - on the right.

When I was in third grade, that's the first Chinese characters they taught us. We were reading a book that had Chinese characters written on it (mainly, moon, and sun, and the two combined). We didn't have to learn how to say those, though. BTW, I do have a Kanji dictionary that shows Chinese characters (the equivalent), but it's kind of hard when you have to look up the kanji instead of the Chinese.