Can the AI really EVER be trusted?

[VemuKhaham]

I recently played a hotseat game with a friend of mine. I was Portugal, he was France. There were AI-players, namely sumerians, aztecs, japanese, koreans, scandinavians and babylonians. The babylonians were eliminated early in the game. France, my friend's nation, was the only civ actually on a different continent, and therefore he hadn't had interaction with the other civ's until I explored him with my carracks, which could travel oceans. Through me, he also learned to know all the other civ's.

Now, I was trying to become everybody's best friend. And I think I was quite well at it, for I had peace with all and right of passages, trade and most of the time they were polite against me. At the time I researched nationalism, however, things began to become a bit worse between me and my friend's nation, and eventually it became a war. Because I had a considerable lead in tech (he was still researching magnetism and such) and my army was superior I thought I could deal with him. I even had a mutual protection pact with my korean southern neighbours, and they were the strongest AI-power by far.

Well, then I started to send my frigates towards France, and I first started to bombard its coasts, because he simply had very little naval power yet (he was still unable to cross ocean so what's the use in building caravels then, if your alone on an island surrounded by it?). I was planning on beginning to fill my galleons for an invasion, when suddenly my friend thought: hey, why won't I just bribe all AI-nations I can? Well, I said, just try it, they won't attack me cause I'm the strongest military power by far, I have good relations with them, am allied with the second strongest nation (Korea) with a mutual protection pact, and have never done no harm to them before.

Basically what he did was just speak to every other civ there was, from Sumeria to Scandinavia, and ask for an alliance against me if he gave them a technology. Not a single one refused, and within one turn I and Korea were the shooting ducks in the world.

But I just don't get it; it isn't quite realistic if you look at it: I mean, would, in the real world, France declare war upon the US just because Germany asks them to? They wouldn't, no matter what the price promised to them. At least not after they have exited the medieval ages I would say. It's just silly. My question to you: is there any way for me to make sure that you can really begin a trustful relationship with another AI-civ?

 

[Durkz]

wellcome to CFC
no they cant be trusted at all. similar things happened to me to.
but the best way to avoid this is to drive them of your continet and than make friends offshore even if they declare there arent any real danger from AI invasion.

 

[Colonel]

Everyone and everything is an enemy!!!!!! Never trust anyone

 

[YNCS]

It works in reverse. In my present game, the Celts demanded a tech from me, I refused, and they declared war. I immediately bribed the Celts' three closest neighbors with the same tech the Celts wanted. I took over two Celtic cities, offered the Celts peace, which I got plus 10 gpt, and the Celts are still at war with the three other civs 12 turns later.

 

[klopolov]

That's why you get them to ally with you and then not only does that prevent your friend to turn them against you, it also makes them gracious towards you.

 

[general_kill]

did ur friend offer tech to korea? cuzz i know korea would also declare war on you had they been offered a tech. However, the problem with this is that after a few turns, the AIs at war with u will most likely want peace. This is the draw back with bribing with techs as opposed to resources or GPT, the AI gets the one time pay and leaves.

 

[VemuKhaham]

well, thanks for the welcome

My friend was probably too late in offering Korea an alliance and a tech, because their mutual protection pact had already made them declare war on France (lucky enough, cause if they had joined, I wouldn't have been able to hold them off; they were my direct southern neighbours and also made sure I wasn't attacked by Scandinavia further south). So I decided to make an alliance against France along with my mutual protection pact with Korea as soon as possible so that he wouldn't quickly reverse sides too.

 

[The Last Conformist]

You can't trust anyone, period.

AIs are more predictible than humans, tho.

 

[Admiral8Q]

That's what makes the game interesting. On Emperor and up it's difficult NOT to have any wars because if you refuse a demand, and the AI civ declares war, most likely they will bribe everyone else to go to war on you if they can!

This is a good time to form war pacts with AI's that are still on good terms with you.

 

[Woody]

The never trust the AI seems to work in conjunction with the AI is stupid at times. I had a ROP with Greece and was streaming tanks and infantry through his land to attack Egypt. He was a very backwards country and only had pikemen and knights but about 5 turns into the ROP he declared war on me. I literally had stacks of death next to his major cities. Needless to say after about two turns Greece no longer existed.

 

[sadu]

Remember, the AI knows the exact composition of your military, and which cities are weakest (something you don't know about them). In this respect, they will often go on a war of opportunity. That is, if you have good tech but weak military, you will find the AI declaring war on you, no matter if they are gracious or otherwise.

And this is also how humans play - If I see a good wonder defended by cheap troops, or an opportunity to get some good tech in a peace settlement, of course I will declare war, even if I'm gracious with the other civ.

You need to make sure that you aren't the fat civ with all the good tech and no defence, or the AI will attack sooner or later.

Also, sometimes you have to give in to demands to avoid a war. I hate doing this, but often the tech is a smaller price to pay than losing stacks of units, or wasting your production on military rather than economic improvements.

 

[Admiral8Q]

The never trust the AI seems to work in conjunction with the AI is stupid at times. I had a ROP with Greece and was streaming tanks and infantry through his land to attack Egypt. He was a very backwards country and only had pikemen and knights but about 5 turns into the ROP he declared war on me. I literally had stacks of death next to his major cities. Needless to say after about two turns Greece no longer existed.

Woody, did he just outright declare war? Or did he form a war pact with another Civ? Normally a weak Civ will only declare war on a much more powerful one if they are bribed, and it's easy to bribe a weak Civ. My guess is that Greece bribed Egypt to form a war pact to "destroy" you.

You need to make sure that you aren't the fat civ with all the good tech and no defence, or the AI will attack sooner or later.

This is a good way to get a Civ to declare war. For example: Don't upgrade your spearsmen to infantry, or your catapults to artillery until another Civ decides to attack your "weak" but fat Civ

Also, sometimes you have to give in to demands to avoid a war. I hate doing this, but often the tech is a smaller price to pay than losing stacks of units, or wasting your production on military rather than economic improvements.

I don't usually give in to big demands until I can switch to Republic or Democracy, when peace is better than war. Hence I expect to be at war for most of the Ancient age.

 

[gunkulator]

I generally welcome war once the AI discovers Democracy. They will all switch to it asap. Start a war with one AI civ and have all the others join in. The WW will absolutely kill them. They won't switch out of it either unless forced out by collapse or unless they are having unit support problems.

 

[Peck of Arabia]

As far as I can tell, the game is specially designed to kep you constantly at war. For instance I was playing as America on a random map I play on so much it's no longer random (Small size, 80%water, Archipelago, Random seed 120289, don't ask) I was reaching the INdustrial Ages and had become the most powerful nation on the planet (I'd already destroyed 2 other competitors) when all of a sudden the tibetians (I was playing that Rise and Rule Mod) who were the most peaceful nation around, moved 2 musketeers into my territory, Since such an incident had happened twice before I signed an MPP with every player, including the tibetians and then told them to get off my land or declare war. So they risked a massive hit in reputation, having every country in the world declare war on them and all for the sake of making a pathetically puny attack involving 2 weak units (both of which were destroyed before they did any damage at all. Why?

I've said it before and I'll say it again Artificial "Intelligence" is no match for Human Stupidity

 

[jb1964]

Even more evil would have been for your friend to sign an MPP w/ Korea and then be patient for the next turn when you bombed his shoreline and Korea declared on you.

I have done this before w/ CivIII. Does this still work w/ Conquests?

Also, another similar story...
I started a regent game on a small, continents map and drew China as my civ. W/ the help of some great starting territory I expanded quickly and took possession of the only iron. Rome demande CoL, I refused, they declared, I killed them. Much later in the game, owning 85% of our continental land, my lapdog, Carthage ran a single numidean warrior up to a defended city, declared and lost the skirmish. 15 trebs, a handfull of swords and MI later (no horses on my land so no riders) and Carthage was down to a single city. I was keeping him around to trigger my GA once I bought horses for the other continent.

So, twice in a single game the AI declared on me and now neither exist. I never lost a single city. I waged the first war as Republic and the second as a Democracy. With next to zero losses (trebs ), mimimal time in enemy lands and the fact that they declared on me I had zero WW. However, my captured cities were not too pleased with my rampaging.

 

[Woody]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
The never trust the AI seems to work in conjunction with the AI is stupid at times. I had a ROP with Greece and was streaming tanks and infantry through his land to attack Egypt. He was a very backwards country and only had pikemen and knights but about 5 turns into the ROP he declared war on me. I literally had stacks of death next to his major cities. Needless to say after about two turns Greece no longer existed.


Woody, did he just outright declare war? Or did he form a war pact with another Civ? Normally a weak Civ will only declare war on a much more powerful one if they are bribed, and it's easy to bribe a weak Civ. My guess is that Greece bribed Egypt to form a war pact to "destroy" you.

This was from a game quite some time ago so I dont remember the details exactly but here is what I do know. I know that egypt declared war on me and greece was not in the war at first since I signed the ROP to get to Egypt. Its possible that egypt bribed greece to attack me but I dont remember getting the XXXX has allied with XXXX message. I do remember that I had been keeping greece around as a "pet" nation, although they were small they formed a buffer between my cities and the rest of a large continent that had five or six other civs on it. I had gone to war several times during the game to keep greece from being wiped out, somtimes with a MA with greece and sometimes just using a ROP and getting in the way of the attackers.

 

[alja]

> , things began to become a bit worse between me and my friend's nation

what an detailled explanation. I can only guess - but I don't think your friend, isolated, back in tech did demand things from you and decided to mess with you. I assume you wanted to have this area for settling, this city, this resource, this luxary...

I wonder what the agreement was when you started the game. Winning together? If not, would have been no sense to continue this game and end it early stage. Why wasting to much time if the outcome is so predicable. And if you had? Why did it come to war?

No my friend, the truth is that your friend should NOT HAVE TRUSTED YOU!

this is it...trust noone....applies for anyone, players and AI's obviously.

 

[Huzzamaster]

I'd trust the AI's more than I trust myself. I'm an insane psycho warmonger! I'm constantly at war with civilizations in my current game, and not one of the AI's aren't furious with me! I don't blame them! It's only going to get worse when the mutual protection pacts come up, but I'm way ahead of them scientifically. 350 years ahead of real world times, I think this won't be too much of a problem!