Capital of Zululand - Zimbabwe???

[SvenSlayer]

Why is the capital of Zululand Zimbabwe? Zimbabwe has zip to do with the Zulu nation. Anyway, Zimbabwe is a country, not a town.

 

[Zachriel]

I'm sure they are using the name to refer to "Great Zimbabwe," the iron age city that reached its peak around 1000ad. When first discovered, Europeans attributed its advanced construction and culture to Egyptians or Phoenicians. With their Euro-centric prejudices, they couldn't believe that Africans were capable of such an accomplishment.

It has been proven that Africans built this great city complex and has become a source of pride for all Africa.

 

[SvenSlayer]

So let's get this straight: they built an iron age city and then went back to using the tools they had when the Europeans arrived. That was a stupid thing to do, if at all true.

 

[bennydtown]

The fate of the civilization that created the Great Zimbabwe (the name is a modern contrivance, we have no idea what language the builders spoke, let alone what they called the city) is still a mystery, but it is clear that it was the work of locals, rather than somebody from the Middle East or North Africa. A great deal of study has gone into it, and the archeological evidence is substantial. We know how the city and it's walls were built, and where the materials came from. We also have forensic evidence that proves the inhabitants were african, not middle eastern.

There are a few possible explanations. Historically, the region has been subject to severe droughts (although Zim is pretty fertile these days), and there have been numerous wars fought among tribes there for hundreds of years. Ironically, it's possible that the predessesors of the Zulu, during one of their expansionist phases, may have been the ones who destroyed that city. That's just a guess though, the lack of written record makes it difficult.

 

[SvenSlayer]

I've heard a bit more about this Great Zimbabwe now. Evidently, it wasn't so magnificent - it certainly wasn't advanced for 1000 AD.

Anyway, Africans doesn't mean Zulu. Africans may have built that city, but what do the Zulu have to do with it? I think the capital of Zululand should be Ulundi because it has been considered to be so by the Zulu.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by SvenSlayer
So let's get this straight: they built an iron age city and then went back to using the tools they had when the Europeans arrived. That was a stupid thing to do, if at all true.

In Europe, they had indoor plumbing for hundreds of years. After the fall of Rome they didn't even bathe in the creek.

Human folly is manifest.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by SvenSlayer
I've heard a bit more about this Great Zimbabwe now. Evidently, it wasn't so magnificent - it certainly wasn't advanced for 1000 AD.

I wonder what the Svens of the world were doing in 1000ad. . . .

 

[SvenSlayer]

"In Europe, they had indoor plumbing for hundreds of years. After the fall of Rome they didn't even bathe in the creek."

We're talking about the same nation going dramatically backwards (which, in this case, as I've said earlier, isn't the Zulu). After the collapse of Rome, the Europian countries which they governed went backwards.

Anyway, Europe was quite well past the Iron Age by 1000 AD. It was in a bad state, but still in a better state than Africa was even in 1500. But I don't want to talk about it more - you have your opinions and I have mine.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by SvenSlayer
But I don't want to talk about it more - you have your opinions and I have mine.

Sorry Sven, but it is just a game after all.

 

[powergozer]

Anyway, Africans doesn't mean Zulu. Africans may have built that city, but what do the Zulu have to do with it? I think the capital of Zululand should be Ulundi because it has been considered to be so by the Zulu.

as it is in civ3 there are only few civilizations and they apperantly represent others as well (for example germany representing just about evey central european nation).

still it is funny how a lot of south africans try to put down everything 'native' africans did... but this discussion is probably getting too political now!

 

[SvenSlayer]

Yes, I agree (to the point that things are getting too political, that is). Let's not continue on the same topic. But I still think that Ulundi would have been a better choice than Zimbabwe.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by SvenSlayer
Yes, I agree (to the point that things are getting too political, that is). Let's not continue on the same topic. But I still think that Ulundi would have been a better choice than Zimbabwe.

I think New York should be the capitol of America.
:crazyeyes

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by SvenSlayer
Yes, I agree (to the point that things are getting too political, that is). Let's not continue on the same topic. But I still think that Ulundi would have been a better choice than Zimbabwe.

So when you play the Zulus, name your capital Ulundi . I haven't used the editor, but I would wager a guess that you can change the city names there, so you want have to retype it every time. Then the AI Zulus would have Ulundi as their capital too.

This is a game. It is not a history lesson. If they had decided to make "First City of the Zulus" the fictional capital of the fictional Zulu civilization, then who cares?

 

[Toecutter]

Why not bring back Rhodesia and Ian Smith

 

[SvenSlayer]

The Rhodesians were still quite British under Smith (even though Smith had declared independence without British consent) so I think the English civ covers that (sort of). Anyway, the Zimbabweians...Zimbabwens...oh, stuff it - the people of Zimbabwe wouldn't like that. Of course, I don't think many of them have computers.

 

[King]

Well zachriel you are a little go out of borfers no matter what you say the bath where excisted especiall in Byzantium also the city was the bighestm in the world they had 5 million teotichiaka had 3,5 and a city in china 4 also in europe we find the wealthiest state (byzantium) and the power who its coin was somethink todays dollar for over a millenia. The city od zimpabwe its not have architectural creativityas we find in eyrope and in that days byzantium for example a significant art creation as agia sophia we cannot found anywhere and also the literature except from the arabic empire was in the highest position.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by King
Well zachriel you are a little go out of borfers no matter what you say the bath where excisted especiall in Byzantium also the city was the bighestm in the world they had 5 million teotichiaka had 3,5 and a city in china 4 also in europe we find the wealthiest state (byzantium) and the power who its coin was somethink todays dollar for over a millenia. The city od zimpabwe its not have architectural creativityas we find in eyrope and in that days byzantium for example a significant art creation as agia sophia we cannot found anywhere and also the literature except from the arabic empire was in the highest position.

I reread my post. Nowhere can I find a superlative, such as best, greatest, largest or richest. The fact is that "Great Zimbabwe" represented such a significant cultural advance that European archaeologists felt threatened by its existence; and preconceived notions were so entrenched that they would acscribed its construction to anyone but black Africans.

I did however make a sideways remark about Scandinavians, who were busy plundering Europe in about 1000ad. But hey, all Civs have their ups and downs.