Carriers useless?

[homer]

In WWII, the Russians had an interesting idea to stop the German Panzers. They would train dogs that food would be found underneath tanks... so the dogs would instictivleylrun to, and then crawl under tracked vehicles to look for food... then... they'd bring these dogs onto the battlefield.. put magnetic AT mines on their backs.. and let them go "find food" under the German panzers... and in theory.. blow up the tanks.

This program didnt have too much success.. for obvious reasons (like dogs couldnt tell the difference between German and Russian tanks).. but it would make an interesting unit in civIII.. wouldnt it..

We can can even incorporate the idea the Americans had in training dolphins to do roughly the same thing to Japanese ships.. another "great idea" that didnt quite pan out too well... but would make some comical units in the game.

Doh!

 

[Dragon2]

If you are invading a distant continent, one or two carriers will really reduce your initial losses in a big invasion.

Bring in your transports and carriers with a strong battleship escort. The transports should have one settler, two workers, and two warriors as well as some strong units, lots of conscript mech infantry and a few cavalry as well as tanks. I'm assuming that you're communist and can rush-build.

Choose the coastal square where you plan to found your beachhead city, preferably on a hill. Now, from the carrier, bomb out the railroads and roads one and two squares away from it! The battleships can help with tiles that are within their bombardment range.

Now go ashore and found the city. Enemy tanks will arrive outside your city, but without any move points left. They sit outside the city. Your bombers hit them and your cavalry and tanks finish them off.

It may even be sufficient just to bomb the tiles two squares from the city site. As soon as the city is built, the tiles one square away will belong to you and the counterattackers cannot use the roads. But I worry about the first turn, where you haven't yet built the city and in principle every enemy tank on the continent can attack you. If they use all their moves before attacking, then you can build the city and get a defense bonus before they attack.


Once the city is established, your carriers have done their job and the bombers can move into the city. Disband a warrior, grow population with a worker, and rush-build walls. Next turn, do the same to build a barracks. Now you can sit back and let enemy tanks battle-harden your conscript mech infantry.

Without the carrier-based bombers to destroy roads, your initial landing force is going to take a lot more casualties.

 

[VoodooAce]

Personally, I too think carriers are far more valuable now than in civ2.....thank goodness.

And I've always thought it pointless to talk about how far a ship could really go in a year. What about earlier in the game when each turn is 10 yrs or 50 yrs? Do you change the movement rates of all units depending on how fast the years go? no.

You just have to look past the whole 'Year' thing. It's not a year, it's a turn.

I think it's just more important how far each unit moves in relation to other units' NORMAL movement rate.

Personally, I think it's goofy that I can transport an armor unit from the very southern tip of a continent, move all the way to the norther end, plus 1/2 way around the globe, and still attack that turn, and even retreat if things don't go well.

With lower naval movement rates, you need to use more strategy, plan ahead more, and be more careful with your carriers and transports.

I like it.

 

[Polonius]

Originally posted by Mighty
From what Ive read of the Red Baron, he was not killed by some one from the trenches. He was on the tail of an Allied plane. And another Allied plane came up to help his buddy. The guy only fired a few shots and shot down the Baron. He was pretty new on the front, not really an experienced pilot and didnt even know who hed shot down until after the battle.

There is actually still a lot of controversy over this and it will of course never now be solved. The British were apparently naturally keen to claim it as an air victory, but according to some reports he was flying over trenches at the time and the angle of entry of the fatal wound suggested that the ground troops who were firing at him (and who weren't British) did in fact get lucky.

Of course it depends on who was writing the history book you read, as always! The point is though, that the little guy does indeed occasionally get lucky in any conflict.

 

[von Brumi]

I would not believe that the patch does not adress the "rebase anywhere" feature. It is not mentioned in the fixes list. What's going on?

 

[hanomag]

Hi outhere!

I think, the Carrieres are only a little small (only 4 Aircrafts??? A Yoke!! take a look at the USS Nimitz or Stuff). But the Bombers itself are Yokes! Can't Kill Units, ony damage them. I prefere the Civ2 rules at that point and wait for a "Bomber can kill Unit"-Mod.

OLAF

 

[Traquenard-fx]

In the mod.bic or editor(I can't remember), I have change the number of allowed aircrafts to 10 or 12 but I have change the defense of the carrier to 1 instead of 12
Really unreal because a defense of 12 is too high. Carrier are the most weak defender naval units. The player now have to send a fleet with it for protect him. It more realistic!!!
I hate see a carrier fire on attackers!!! This is very suck. By this way carriers are very powerfull and need to by highgly defend.

One more thing: how to change the units in order that destroyers and AEGIS cruisers can carry cruise missiles( I want the anwser with all details because I can't select the option in abilities because tacticals nuke ability always appear when I want click on '' can carry tactical missile '') ?

 

[rustydawg]

lol i love all the creative excuses for high tech units losing to lower tech units. (Would the ironclads have support squads too? How do you explain subs? lol)

I'll definitely start using them to bomb improvements i've overlooked that in my strats to this point. But their not nearly as good as they were in civ 2. I mean, you can only carry what is it 3 or 4 bombers instead of 8? And bombers dont even take out whole units like they used to which is more realistic but makes aircraft much less a part of my overall strategy than they were in civ 2 (where i'd have a ton of bombers who'd knock out all defenses and a tank or two running around claiming the cities). Now they arent particularly effective at bombarding units in my experience.

 

[Polonius]

Originally posted by rustydawg
lol i love all the creative excuses for high tech units losing to lower tech units.

It does tax the imagination a bit sometimes doesn't it?

I had an archer take out one of my tanks. I figured the driver must have opened the hatch and popped his head up for a quick smoke, when ..... THWANG! Unusual tactic in the middle of a battle, but he musta been a nicotine addict...

 

[freakboy]

Originally posted by homer
In WWII, the Russians had an interesting idea to stop the German Panzers. They would train dogs that food would be found underneath tanks... so the dogs would instictivleylrun to, and then crawl under tracked vehicles to look for food... then... they'd bring these dogs onto the battlefield.. put magnetic AT mines on their backs.. and let them go "find food" under the German panzers... and in theory.. blow up the tanks.

This program didnt have too much success.. for obvious reasons (like dogs couldnt tell the difference between German and Russian tanks).. but it would make an interesting unit in civIII.. wouldnt it..

What I remember about this is that the germans were sort of freaked out that the Russians would go through all the trouble to train a dog, just to send it in to blow itself to bits. Most of the dogs were shot before they got near tanks.

Next Gen Real weapon: Robotic Flies w/ nerve gas.

Re CARRIERS: Uh, yeah they rock. Get 3 carriers filled with bombers to spend a few turns on an enemy's road system. OUCH! You can pretty much set them back 20-40 turns in a couple of rounds of bombing. Then once their infrastructure is gone, bomb their cities into dust.

Freakboy

 

[Arrian]

I build a ton of battleships instead. The reason is simple: If I'm going to invade another continent, I'm not even gonna TRY to keep their cities. I raze and rebuild, so I'm not concerned with losing a city to cultural defection when it has 20 bombers in it. Therefore, coastal bombardment can be handled by the battleships, and then I drop down a few transports full of troops, with a settler. The city I build is of MY nationality, and has no enemy culture built up in it, so it doesn't revolt. Next turn, rebase bombers. Next turn, kill.

The cool thing is that both ways work.

-Arrian

p.s. If Carriers could hold more air units, then I think I might build them. But as it is, I'll spend those shields on Battleships.

 

[freakboy]

Originally posted by Arrian
I build a ton of battleships instead. The reason is simple: If I'm going to invade another continent, I'm not even gonna TRY to keep their cities. I raze and rebuild, so I'm not concerned with losing a city to cultural defection when it has 20 bombers in it. Therefore, coastal bombardment can be handled by the battleships, and then I drop down a few transports full of troops, with a settler. The city I build is of MY nationality, and has no enemy culture built up in it, so it doesn't revolt. Next turn, rebase bombers. Next turn, kill.

The cool thing is that both ways work.

-Arrian

p.s. If Carriers could hold more air units, then I think I might build them. But as it is, I'll spend those shields on Battleships.

I haven't done a lot of close comparison, but a carrier with 4 bombers gets 4 raids vs a battleship which gets only 1 per turn - this coupled with the range, makes them rather powerful - of course bombers can't sink ships, so battlships are handy.

 

[SSG Micoud 75th]

If the battelship icon represents a battle group, then why is the carrier battle group so weak? And if I place my fighter in an air superiority mission then every turn i should be able to see all the units in the squares that it patrols. How come i don't? or do i?
But anyway my strike fighters on my carrier should also be able to sink the enemy ships. And my helicopters should also be able to use the carriers for launching my marines or infantry into enemy territory. You know like for cutting off enemy reinforcements or landing on forts inland.

By the way what is the key for taking a screenshot in civ3?