Castles

[Mortenart]

I`ve always been a bit underwhelemed by forts in Civ - a 25% defense bonus is not that great, especially if you have to cut down a forest on a hill tile. This gives a negative defense bonus (75% -> 50%). I was thinking of the virtually impregnable fortresses during the Crusades (eg Krak des Chevaliers), and thought that it`d be great to be able to build a strong fortress in hostile lands, instead of having to found a city and build a castle within it. Would also be good if you could build a castle on mountain tiles, but don`t think this would be possible. The castle could be named, just like a city, work one ring of tiles, and have a fortification bonus of, say, 50% plus 4 times whatever terrain it was built on (150% on a hill). But the number of units you could base there would depend on the size of the fortress (it would grow in the same way as a city). It just seems crazy that forest/hill gives more of a defensive bonus than fort/hill.

They would have to cost a lot of gold and worker turns, and maybe the Civ would also have to have access to a quarry.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

i really like that, for what my support's worth...

probably nothing, but...

 

[Junuxx]

don't cut the forest, eh.

 

[Demus]

or just be able to make forts without removing the forest? you could probably still make a castle-improvement (with one of the last machinery techs), that up the bonus from +25% to +50% (takes 40-60 turns to build?). As far as i know, the defensive bonus from forests comes from the ambush abilities, which would still be doable with a fort built in a forest clearing, but still within the original forest.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I's still rather see civ specific unique forts, like (as I've said several times before) making the Citadel of light a Malakim fort that grants extra line of sight and creates fireballs to defend itself, and Chancels of the guardians as Elohim forts that give the defensive promotion and auto-cast sanctify on the land around them, keeping hell away.

If memory serves, BtS took away the requirement of clearing forests to build a fort. There is nothing in the current BtS CIV4BuildInfos.xml file that suggests that you must clear a forest to build a fort. You can have both. However, the FfH 2 .25 CIV4BuildInfos.xml has not been updated to reflect this change. It should be. It isn't a hard change to make, in fact, I just made it in mine.

 

[vorshlumpf]

However, the FfH 2 .25 CIV4BuildInfos.xml has not been updated to reflect this change. It should be. It isn't a hard change to make, in fact, I just made it in mine.

I hadn't noticed this, thanks. I considered this change to be a long-overdue boost for forts.

 

[Mortenart]

If memory serves, BtS took away the requirement of clearing forests to build a fort. There is nothing in the current BtS CIV4BuildInfos.xml file that suggests that you must clear a forest to build a fort. You can have both. However, the FfH 2 .25 CIV4BuildInfos.xml has not been updated to reflect this change.

I`d forgotten this was the case with BtS. Yes, it should be reinstated. I like your ideas for Civ-specific forts, particularly the auto-sanctify one. Thanks Thomas for your support for my idea.

 

[nealhunt]

In BTS, a Fort allows access to a resource. You can build a fort on top of the resource instead of the standard improvement. You can use it to claim resources that aren't in the fat cross for any of the cities. Why build an improvement you can't work when a Fort will allow access and allow a unit to protect it from pillaging that much more effectively?

It's good for building on a resource that you don't have the tech for yet. Then when you get the tech you have immediate access to the resource without the delay of building the improvement. Workers can come by later and put the "real" improvement on it if it needs to be worked. Otherwise, it's set as-is.

You can also build Forts outside your cultural borders. The resource access and outside border traits allow you to "claim" a resource right outside your borders. Build the fort and wait for the border to expand.

Also, the defenders in a fort get defense bonuses as if they were in a city, both innate unit benefits and City Garrison promotions. An Archer with CG promos can be an excellent defender of a resource.

Forts still aren't great, but it's a nice boost in usefulness. It's definitely something to use when your workers are running out of stuff to do.

Of course, I haven't checked it out in FFH yet so I'm not sure if all those abilities apply. For a civ like the Kuriotates that don't actually work the resources in much of their territory, forts would be useful. A handful of defenders in forts on the resources would be very resistant to pillaging.

 

[skallben]

Don't forget they can act like canals at narrow landbridges. I love that feature. Maybe make it require Blasting Powder or something.

 

[zxcvbnm]

For a civ like the Kuriotates that don't actually work the resources in much of their territory, forts would be useful. A handful of defenders in forts on the resources would be very resistant to pillaging.

And with a zone of control as in maniac's modmod those forts stop raiding hippus very easily

 

[Calavente]

if you put fort on ressource, you don't care about raiders..

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

CultuumI like civ specific forts with unique powers. As MagisterCultuum said the Malakim and Elohim ones, the Ljosalfar could build on forests and increse the growth of forests around them. A sheiam could increase hell spread rate in it's immediate radius. A Khazak one helps the chance a metal resource is found in the vicinity. Amurite Forts could give a specail promotion to Arcane units which increases helps them to gain xp. I don't think they should be able to work tiles, but rather help neighboring tiles.

 

[morchuflex]

In BTS, a Fort allows access to a resource. You can build a fort on top of the resource instead of the standard improvement. You can use it to claim resources that aren't in the fat cross for any of the cities.

Does this work beyond cultural borders? It doesn't seem to...
In fact, is there any way to gain access to a resource outside cultural borders?

 

[Demus]

Amurite Forts could give a specail promotion to Arcane units which increases helps them to gain xp. I don't think they should be able to work tiles, but rather help neighboring tiles.

imho they should still be able to gather res from the tile they're on, even if it's just to help with fort placement. About the amurites: could be a special arcane promo (like what used to be done with the old watchtowers in vanilla), giving an additional empower or spell extension bonus to spells.

 

[nealhunt]

Does this work beyond cultural borders? It doesn't seem to...
In fact, is there any way to gain access to a resource outside cultural borders?

It still has to be in the cultural borders, but you can build a fort immediately outside, waiting for the borders to expand and grant access as soon as it does.

You can't access a resource outside your borders as far as I know (not counting trading for it, obviously).