Cataphract Promos

[SETX Aggie]

Ok folks, here's the question for my first ever thread:

I'm playing a game as Justinian because I wanted to have some fun with his beefed up knights. I have gotten to guilds just as my selected target got feudalism for longbows. I'm not doing anything fancy, so I only have 2 promos for my newly built Cataphracts.

What would you recommend for the first 2 promos? Flanking 2 to get first strike immunity (and withdrawl)? Combat 2 to get the extra strength? Combat 1 with a specialized follow-up?

 

[huerfanista]

Make a few F2, the rest combat. Better yet, switch to theo or vassalage. Then barracks + stable + civic = 3 promos out of the box. Make a few F2C1, some C2 -Shock (for pikes), a couple of C2-formation (if they have horses), the rest C3. Take down defenses with spies, or just attack without removing defenses - if the opponent isn't protective, you'll roll over them with only a few losses.

edit: oops, my bad. That only gives 7xp. You need vassalage + theo, or one of those plus a GG for 9xp. Still, 7xp units will earn the next promo after 2 wins.

 

[mirthadir]

Combat II/Flanking II if they have only LBs and no castles. Shock against pike, and formation vs elephants and other knights. Pinch vs muskets.

Honestly though, just don't promote them (beyond maybe two for stack defense and one for the medic). Wait until you are outside the city of choice and then pick the promos best suited for cracking the place. That way if you see 3 CG III/Drill I LBs inside and rubbish you can promote 3 Flankers to wear them down and hope 2 survive. Conversely if they have just a few CG I LBs then you may not even need promos.

 

[SETX Aggie]

I have gotten to them before castles - Thank God. I also have 6-8 catapults I intend to carry around for the sole purpose of knocking down defense. Luckily I have yet to run into pikes, but I will keep the shock promo in mind in case they start appearing.

I guess my major concern is that I almost never have used flanking in the past. But using these mounted units as city busters, the immunity to first strikes looks tempting. I wonder if that is better than combat 1/cover?

 

[huerfanista]

I wonder if that is better than combat 1/cover?

AFAIK, only archer, melee, and gunpowder units can get cover. It's not available to knights.

 

[mirthadir]

Forget the pults. It is not worth the time it takes to march them up, bombard, march, bombard, etc. Crank up the espionage against your target, use spies. Much faster and leaves you with more hammers for more catas. Frankly though a LB with only modest defenses can just be steamrolled by flanking catas. 40% of the time, minimum, the cata survives. As long as you aren't hitting CG III on hills, you can expect a very nice survival and promotion rate using just flankers.

Of course if any of your targets is stuck with only archers ...

 

[huerfanista]

Early cataphracts are awesome city steamrollers.

 

[Civman123]

Go cataphracts!

A couple of Flanking units if you need to weaken a strong unit first (e.g. a CG3 Longbow or a Formation Pike or something) and a couple specialized C1 and shock for pikes and the rest C2.

 

[Johnpecan]

Don't promote them until you're about to attack! If it's < 20% odds, individually promote flanking. Then use a mix of combat / cover for the rest. Don't forget a medic too.

 

[semirami]

Like everyone said, few flanking2, few spicialized and the rest C2, but I will have one with flanking1/centry. Mounted units have the advantage, that they dont need civics. Barracks+stable will give you 2 promos and even if you run both Vassalage and Theo, it's not enough for third promo(unless if you play with char leader). So you can run OR and Bureaucracy if you want.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

don't promote; see what he has, promote accordingly

f2 is not so great since you'll get 30% withdraw chance(rather crap if you ask me - but if you get the free flanking 1 event... it's somethin'). But get a few.

rest c1 - then wait; try to force attack on what he has less of pike/lbow 1st(if less pikes, promote the 1st ones to c2 and you'll select the pike as defender). The advantage is that you can safely promote the rest to c2 as you know you'll get the lbows. If less lbows, promote the 1st attackers to c2 obviously... and then the rest to shock.

 

[Loknar]

I've just tried this out:

Don't promote them until you're about to attack! If it's < 20% odds, individually promote flanking. Then use a mix of combat / cover for the rest. Don't forget a medic too.

And I'm really thrilled with my first medieval war without catapults! I'm dashing through Maos country with two cataphract only stacks (with one MASH chariot each) conquering and razing cities here and there. Mao is totally disorganized and his behaviour is an anal outrage. LOL It's like fighting with a rapier instead of a club. Thanks! I love it!

 

[Levgre]

I was thinking, it might be better to give them flanking, if you plan on them participating in future wars, either as cataphracts or as cavalry.

A unit with flanking will get more exp because exp is determined by comparing strength... and in certain cases the extra strength won't add much of a chance to win.

If you are more concerned with present success and reaching bonuses versus cavalry, it would be better to go with strength. Also, if you don't bother with flanking 2 flanking 1 isn't much good. And then it is ideal that the cataphract gets to level 4 if you get flanking 2, so you can get flanking 1,2, combat 1, and pinch. So if you don't think a cataphract will end up with 17 exp(although a good amount can) I wouldn't go with flanking.

I find I can get 1/3rd through 1/2 of my cataphracts to level 17(by fighting the mop-up battles), so the ones you plan on getting to that could go the flanking route.