Nobles' Club 366: Justinian I of Byzantium

[gavenkoa]

Probably IMM is pretty punishing. I waged elepult war against semi-iso AI and finished AI T200 in another attempt.

At this other AIs have inflation, like 16gpt, while mine is 61gpt. With total expenses of me are 227gpt, while AIs are in range 60-100gpt. Owing to the fact that conquered cities are all with Courthouses... Civics upkeep is 86, unit upkeep is low because I own many cities now.

Again I blame the sad state of my economy because of low city pop. Whipping put them to size ~6-8, so F2 advisor says I work 79 tiles, if I compare to 4 other AIs - they work ~120 tiles...

Seems I had to stop a war after getting some costly techs from semi-iso AI and break isolation, so I can trade & develop cities and for for Astro foreign trade routes... I've got some tech and resumed a war after 10T peace treaty hoping to squeeze other advanced tech, but AI gives only 30g, probably I had to obtain Feudalism and ask AI to become a vassal of me.

Why AI is reluctant to give up techs on the second war when I reduced AI empire to 1 city? Too many catapult died against walls? Should wars to be more victorious to get a better prize?

 

[sampsa]

I waged elepult war against semi-iso AI and finished AI T200 in another attempt.

But semi-isolated isn't a great situation to elepult. You have no trades, no trade routes. You are delaying astro (for trades and trade routes) a LOT.

Why AI is reluctant to give up techs on the second war when I reduced AI empire to 1 city? Too many catapult died against walls? Should wars to be more victorious to get a better prize?

A peace resets war success.

 

[gavenkoa]

A peace resets war success.

I captured 5 cities and left 2 for a subsequent war.

Should I leave more cities for a next war to get a better prize? AI wasn't generous in the first war - proposed only cheap techs, I eliminated cities till I can milk 2 major tech from the AI.

Should I have reduced AI to a single city in a first attempt then (and later kill it)? Should I reduce the last AI's city to 1 defender to milk the most (given AI was teching 2x faster than any other on the map pre-war, so I have what to chose from it)?

But semi-isolated isn't a great situation to elepult. You have no trades, no trade routes. You are delaying astro (for trades and trade routes) a LOT.

At certain point on this map semi-iso AI starting to tech like crazy, at around T100-110. I managed to trade my Alpha & Metal Casting & Compass to AI, but then AI gets Machinery / Optics very fast. I learned how to befriend AI and dislike self-researching Machinery. I already had to get Iron Working myself to enable lots of river cottages covered by jungles.

So I thought about capitalizing on AI via a war, especially I secured monopoly on Elephants... Expected it could be a victorious short war with detour to Math + Construction + HA which should win me Machinery. But I had to conquer much more cities for AI to give up on Machinery... Anyway 15T for self-teching Machinery is less than Math + Construction + HA and whipping military... So it was a failed experiment...

 

[sampsa]

Even on deity, it's very rare that an AI really techs like crazy in late BCs. With the trades that astro allows, you can go towards rifling at which point many of the other techs he might have don't matter much. The war will be swift and efficient.

So what I'd recommend is just do the "normal thing". Self tech IW+machinery, get astro, then take it from there. I'm not saying you can't make semi-iso elepult work. But do you really need to make it work?

 

[gavenkoa]

So what I'd recommend is just do the "normal thing". Self tech IW+machinery, get astro, then take it from there. I'm not saying you can't make semi-iso elepult work. But do you really need to make it work?

Actually today I tried one more time and after economical path I went IW => MC => Machinery. It was very lucky game because of trade options, and so far my best attempt.

Included save (original BtS) for T110 / 125BC. AI just finished Currency & I'm going to sell Alpha + MC for Curr + Math + 65g. Also I've got Great Scientist, so stopped research slider before GS's Academy. Machinery is 3T away.

This time:

* I didn't try to self-tech Sailing, instead I've got only cheap Fishing. Sailing is per-requisite for Compass which I get later from Machinery. This allows to get IW earlier, for +2 foreign trade routes I connected gifted city to my empire.
* I can get Curr + Math + Aesthetic (for unique building Hippodrome in Drama with +2Happy)
* I didn't gift Ivory to AI, only Corn & Rice - to prevent AI working extra tiles. It already benefits from early religion.
* Developed cottage in the capital, the capital had only 2 whips - to stay at max pop on cottages all the time.
* Built 2 Workers in 2-pop 2nd & 3rd city - to free the capital to work on cottage & Ivory (Hammers are good as we are Imperialistic) & pumping Settlers, supported by chop. In earlier attempts extra Workers from the capital delayed Settlers, making land claiming tricky and non-reliable...

Overall my tech path:

* Agri
* Pottery (early cottages, initially I have 2 river greens, after chopping one additional)
* Mining (enabled 1 river green mine for Imperialistic Settlers before I get Hunting for Ivory)
* BW (opens chopping for 2 Workers)
* Hunting (moves the capital cap to 6 pop)
* HR (we hope for Horses as there is no Copper + to avoid Archery + 20% research bonus for Writing)
* Writing (to open borders for +2 relation after 50T & GS for capital's Academy)
* Alpha (to convert food & hammers to Research because at this stage I need no more military - because it increases maintenance + no more buildings - I hope for Org Religion from Monotheism soon). Alpha supports my research rate. AI sipped Alpha!!
* IW (6 Workers almost improved everything not covered by jungle + 2 cities almost non-functional because of jungle)
* Fishing (1T to open trade for Sailing and build 2 Boats)
* MC (required to break isolation + I hope for trade bait)
* Machinery (I kept MC private watching AI didn't start it yet so AI can't finish Machinery). With Machinery I will milk AI for everything useful + it is on isolation breaking path!!

Also important points:

* Early 3 cottages & avoiding unnecessary whips in the capital (only Granary & Lib) to work on cottages. Supporting cottages by 2 neighbour cities.
* Forbusting worked with only 3 Warriors, 2 of them are from the Capital, so turns spent on Settlers instead.
* Discovery of Horses to avoid Archery via efficient exploring.
* Pleasing AI with gifting 2 Health resources + ealy open borders + shared religion + city gifting for eventually great trades.
* city #5 is very poor and used to block AI settlers / claim land / forbid access to Ivory. City #4 had to build Lib for border pop, I my game AI's Settler almost slipped via 1-tile passage, 1-2T later AI would settled a city behind

Spoiler T111 - just after Currency + Math from Alpha + MC. 2T before Machinery. :

Now I'm a bit puzzled.

Should I keep monopoly for Machinery? I can get Aesthetic + several cheap techs, including Sailing, necessary to Compass. Also I lack 2 tech in a chain for Monarchy, which AI got earlier...

Monopoly for Machinery means monopoly for Optics. Meaning that I could milk semi-iso AI for techs without detouring from breaking isolation.

I'm not eager for Monarchy, because I'm not too far from Drama's Hyppodrome with +2 Happiness, the cost is 50H, or with Org Reigion + Forge it is 34H.

My sustainable research rate is ~120bpt, same as for the rival AI for the first time!! I could delay Optics and race for Music via Drama. Another vote for the Drama...

After breaking isolation I think about conquering AI's developed land, instead of chopping infinite jungles...

Any ideas about research path & peace/war decisions (I have Ivory, AI hasn't started Feudalism yet, Optics is ~20T ahead)? Difficulty is IMM.