CCT3D3: Combating Crapy Culture Project

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Yes, I know thats CCCP. Thats because I want to take an authoritarian state on the outlying cities and their culture. We lost 2 citys last chat.
We need culture in these cities, and fast. I propose the following drastic measure:
Whip a library in every city conquered from an enemy. (If there arent enough citizens, a temple).
This is an emergency action that I hate to use, but we stand to loose what we've gained if we dont.
As you've probably guessed by now, the whipping helps in a 2fold way:
It increases culture and it reduces the native population.

I want feedback from the people before I make any sort of dictatorial declaration to the governors.

So, who's happy with the CCCP?
Who isn't? And among those dissenters, who dosent want to go work in the Dutch desert?

SaaM

 

[Ranger99]

YES!!!

this is EXACTLY what we need, libraries, our people will feel better knowing that their culture is GREAT, and i dont know for sure, but does that help with war weariness too???

 

[GenMarshall]

YES!!!

this is EXACTLY what we need, libraries, our people will feel better knowing that their culture is GREAT, and i dont know for sure, but does that help with war weariness too???

No, only Police Stations and the Universal Sufarage can do that

 

[Ulyaoth]

Yes, I fully support this. We can't afford to lose what we've worked so hard for. Don't let our brave troops' work be in vain!

 

[greekguy]

We agreed a whille ago to whip Dutch for culture. there was a thread and vikingruler wrote an article in the Camelot Times. Why aren't there temples and less Dutch people? next TC, can we just do what we agreed upon, so we have no more flips and less evil Dutch on our hands.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Well, then. If you'll sign here, initial here, put on this armband and blame the Indians with me, I'm sure things will go along smoothly

But all joking aside, I'm glad this is getting a good response.

 

[Nobody]

I concur, drastic times call for drastic action.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Good... Good

For my first order of action, I wish to have the governor whip a library in any city that was not founded by us. Should the city not support being able to whip a Library, a Temple will suffice. This is to be done preturn. Should, on T1, the cities that had Libraries whipped in them be able to have a Temple whipped, they will. This is an immediate tactic to be used only now. Also, from now on, all conqured cities (once a stable defense has been mounted) will have Libraries and Temples added to them right off.

Cities founded by us that live in border areas are also to have Libraries whipped in them. This part may be a tad drastic, but it will increase the overall culture of the nation.

Thirdly, cities that are undefended are to have spearmen added to them. No whipped units, but defense. I mean, c'mon. Oxford is undefended right now and the Dutch retook a city right near it! This goes for all cities; Not just ones the CC is Dean of.

SaaM

Havin fun mandating stuff.

 

[Bertie]

I'm in total agreement that we need to unleash the lash in this game. I'm not actually sure whether the point of this thread is to advocate whipping or advocating whipping only to build libraries quicker. I am much in favor of building libraries first, and temples a distant second. And I am in favor of building libraries now. The whip is a fine way to accomplish this quickly, and is one of the benefits of still being in Despotism. I am not in favor of building libraries at the expense of military units, however. But I think we can accomplish the production of horses and books at the same time. I think that is actually what you mean.

Thirdly, cities that are undefended are to have spearmen added to them.

I very much disagree with this (and don't see what it has to do with whipping libraries). We're going to need something like 5 or 6 spears total for this game; we've already produced twice that amount. We don't want our military to sit lazily in our cities, waiting for our enemies bring the battle to us. Rather we want our military to seek out our enemies. We want to go forth and slay them. That doesn't require passive little spears; it does require brawny offensive units. (BTW, interesting discussion going on about our defensive needs HERE .)

Anyway, the whippings will continue until morale improves.

 

[zyxy]

I hate to spoil the party, but I would first like to see some analysis of how this will help. We lost a few cities, that was to be expected and it's no big deal. No reason to stop thinking before we act.

Whipping a temple takes 3 citizens I think, a library 4. How many captured cities have so many?

AFAIK there are a lot of factors determining flip probability, among those are the overall culture and the local culture of the 2 civs involved. (Other factors are nationality, tile ownership, WLTKD, resistance, MPs, and maybe more). So:
- How much overall culture do we need to surpass the overall dutch or indian culture? How many cultural buildings do we have to build, and when will we take over the cultural lead?
- How much local culture do we need to surpass the local dutch or indian culture? Same follow-up questions.

@greekguy: this is the thread you mentioned. Eight posts, very little discussion, no poll. Not even sure that everyone wanted to whip for culture.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Aww... don't be such a party pooper, zyxy

I don't have that on me right now. In fact, I don't know anything right now that isn't related to that dammed APUSH Exam I'm about to take. I want those credits.

Give me some time. Or perhaps my deputy would like to do this.

SaaM
Who just kinda wants to use the whip.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I concur, but only half.
We should raze instead of capture cities and replace them by our own settlers.
For the cities already captured, culture-pop-rushing is ok.

 

[mad-bax]

The governors queues have been set for the TC. There are a few more unit builds and the whip is to be used for a library, a temple, a sword and a settler.

We have to be a little circumspect since when we revolt we cannot afford too much unhappiness in our cities..

 

[greekguy]

@greekguy: this is the thread you mentioned. Eight posts, very little discussion, no poll. Not even sure that everyone wanted to whip for culture.

i don't remember anyone saying we shouldn't whip dutch to get culture. if you disagreed why didn't you say anything? also, your link is for the wrong thread.

 

[zyxy]

i don't remember anyone saying we shouldn't whip dutch to get culture. if you disagreed why didn't you say anything? also, your link is for the wrong thread.

I am saying it now

I am not against whipping the dutch, I am also not against whipping them for culture (but I could imagine other priorities), as we'll need some temples and libraries sooner or later. I just don't believe it will help against flips, not in the short run at least. I am open to and waiting for arguments that will prove me wrong.

corrected the typo in the link. Thanks.

 

[classical_hero]

Whipping the Dutch is a very pleasant thought.

 

[Furiey]

I am not against whipping the dutch, I am also not against whipping them for culture (but I could imagine other priorities), as we'll need some temples and libraries sooner or later. I just don't believe it will help against flips, not in the short run at least. I am open to and waiting for arguments that will prove me wrong.

One of the factors that determines the flip probability of a town is the number of foreigners in the town. The fewer the foreigners the lower the flip probability.

The most common way to reduce the number of foreigners is by starving them, but they will only starve at one citizen per turn.

By whipping we can reduce a town to only one citizen in one turn, dropping the flip probability immediately and get something useful from it.

If you look in Chieftess' sig you will see a link to a flipcalc utility that will allow you to play about with the numbers and see the difference it makes. anarres has done another available from the utilities forum.

 

[zyxy]

Furiey:
Thanks for the pointers. Contrary to what I remembered I see that only local culture affects flip risk like a binary switch (i.e. depending on who has more, but not how much more), but the global culture ratio has a gradual effect. So building some culture does help lowering the flip risk. It doesn't matter where you build it though, unless you can win in local culture too.

Whipping of course also helps (but you could whip for anything, not just culture).

 

[Furiey]

Yes you can whip for anything, and sometimes a Settler for example is more useful.

Whipping for Culture gives you the start on the local culture issue which can in turn take the pressure off a city as as the borders expand the city may reclaim tiles in its borders that were taken by enemy culture.

 

[classical_hero]

Thirdly, cities that are undefended are to have spearmen added to them. No whipped units, but defense. I mean, c'mon. Oxford is undefended right now and the Dutch retook a city right near it! This goes for all cities; Not just ones the CC is Dean of.

SaaM

Havin fun mandating stuff.

I cannot believe that we are having empty cities, are we trying to hand cities on a platter for the enemy? It is good to see you back in an office SaaM.