SJSerio
Centurion
Now that the Civ 4 SDK is out, I wish to offer a challenge to Civilization Modders. I offer a challenge because 1. I am no programmer (though I do have a very basic understanding of how it works) and I do not pretend to be one. 2. I have no close friends who are programmers and Civilization fans, and 3. because I am going to be on a ship for the next six months or so and I will not have access to a computer that will even play Civ 4. Having said all that, the task I offer is not easy by my reckoning. It is a change to the core game itself. Before I name the challenge, let me set it up.
One of the key reasons I am attracted to Civilization is because it is turn-based. In a game of this magnitude, I much prefer turn-based over real-time. I have tried those games and I always wind up too frustrated to play any further. Warcraft, Age of Empires, Rise of Nations... all of these just have too much going on for me to really get it down. Even working with others to alleviate the mass-management gets frustrating, especially when you don't have the right team mates to counter your own strengths. One game I did like was both real-time and turn-based. That game was Lords of the Realm (2 specifically). The thing I liked was that all of the management issues were handled in a turn-based environment, while the battles were done in real-time maps. This made the real-time portion more fun as you were able to concentrate on the battle strategy and not have to worry about how other things, like your economy, were going.
That brings me to my challenge. To create a real-time battle environment that works in conjuction with the core game. I do, however, have a somewhat specific vision of how this would work...
The Basics
First of all, it would probably be best to make this feature a pre-game option (especially if other things are offered as not to alienate those who prefer the regular way). Of course, it could be a stand-alone if there are no other major changes to the core game. Having an option may also make it easier to integrate into the game in a future expansion, say! Anyway, The battles will seemlessly come in several varieties:
skirmishes - one on one battles that should take no more than a minute or so to complete.
assaults - where one force engages another force
seiges - where a force attacks an occupied citie or other fortification
Of course, these names are aesthetic as the battles will all unfold in the same manner. Basically, the way I see it is that the battle commences when one unit attacks an enemy unit. A seperate, battle-map would appear that encompasses an area of about a 2 tile radius from the unit being attacked (most likely equal to a city radius). For example, if a Roman Infantry attacks a German Rifleman, the center of the map will be where the where the German Rifleman was located. The layout of the Battlemap will reflect that area of the world map in terrain and structures and improvements at a larger scale. So if a city has an ocean to the east, hills to the west, mountains to the North, and forested plains to the south on the world map, it all reflects on the battle-map. All units within the battle radius are placed into the battle (more on this later). The battles could either be played out until the forces of one side is depleted of units or a player retreats from battle. Different factors would come into affect during the battle which could really determine the outcome.
The Units
As I said, units in the battle radius are all included on the battle map. At least, all units that are actively engaged in the war. This includes a third or fourth nation that happens to be in the radius at the time. (Options for how that works will be discussed later.) For every unit that is in the battle radius, a number of sub-units will appear on the battle-map. That number would probably be best fixed accoring to type. On that point, here are my suggestions:
Foot soldiers - 10
Mounted units - 5
Artillery - 3
Vehicles - 3
Air Units - 2
Naval Units - 1
When it comes to air units, I am uncertain how this could be used to affect. I suppose that any air units that happen to be patroling in the battle radius will be included in the battle. As well as any air units that are in cities, airports, or carriers. Anyway, these numbers are negotiable to what would best fit the design, but hopefully provide an idea of what I am getting at. How they are handled could be in one of two ways:
A. The units are tied to a single "battalion" and move as one. In otherwords, an infantry unit would be represented by a battalion of 10 infantry units. Much like how the regular Civ 4 battles are done, the loss of each unit (on the battle map) represents damage to the core (world map) unit.
B. The units work individually, but are still tied to their core units.
On that note, retreat would be handled best if there is a certain amount of time that must pass before retreat can be possible. This is in order to keep players from retreating right away. After the time has passed, the player must move all surviving units to retreats points at the edges of the map or to a designated fortification for players being sieged. Then the command will be available for retreat. Any units left at the end of the battle would have thier turns used up. So if a cavalry unit was in the battle that had not moved prior to the engagement, they will not be able to move after the battle is complete until the players next turn. Also, units who retreated to the edge of the battle map will appear on a space just outside of the battle radius (in the direction they retreated).
Terrain, Improvements and Resources
As said, terrain in the battle map would reflect that of the battle radius on the world map. This is especially important when it comes to coastal areas. For example, ships would be able to bombard the land area. Naturally, it would have affects on the strategies used by the players. I'm sure I need not elaborate on that too much.
Improvements would also play an important role. naturally, roads would make it easier for units to traverse through some terrain. Some improvements will also provide aids in defense. Walls will hinder enemies and fortifications and coastal batteries will have thier own (built-in) artillery which can attack enemy units (if friendly units are their to work them. Otherwise, the enemy can gain control and turn them against the owner. Of course, improvements can be destroyed as well. Artillery, Bombers, tanks and such can damage and destroy the improvements, stealing their advantages. By having none-destructive units (i.e. infantry and cavalry) attack the improvements, they can charge up and gain control of the facilities until the battle ends or they are removed again. On a side note, artillery could be taken in this way as well. This would, of course, reflect on the World Map when the battle is over.
Resources could also play a role. Obiously, since improvements would be in danger of being destroyed, it would add a deeper strategy of defending those resources. One possibility could be to allow units to pillage certain resources. If those units survive the battle, then the resource could do something special for the player. Food could heal units in the battle, luxuries could add to experience of the units, and strategic resources could provide a free unit to the pillaging player. These are all possibilities!
Unit Experience
Speaking of experience, the promotions could still come into play. A unit that has a ranger ability could drive through forest much easier and attack to and from those areas as well, for example. This area may need more thought and suggestions, however!
Summary
All in all, that is the core of the challenge. Of course, there are more elements to explore, and more possibliities for deepening this idea. But, to be honest, it is late, I am tired, and I am sure that others who may like this idea would love to add there ideas. It has been said that with the SDK one can make a game that is based off of civilization 4. As I said, I am no programmer, and with my limited knowledge of the subject, I don't know how hard it would be to integrate this, but I am sure it would not be easy. It may be something that would have to wait until Civilization 5. In any case, the challenge is offered. In a few days, I will be leaving on a ship with limited internet access, but I will check back for any feedback (and progress of those who have accepted this challenge) as often as I can. If anybody does feel up to it, drop a pm to me and I will get you my contact information. I have nothing to offer but my own ideas and suggestions as I am not a professional in any matter. All I ask of the person or people that would take up this challenge is a mention in the credits.
Perhaps when I return later this year, I will be able to provide a little more. Until then, I will see you all around.
Have a nice day!
Sal "Thorburne" Serio
One of the key reasons I am attracted to Civilization is because it is turn-based. In a game of this magnitude, I much prefer turn-based over real-time. I have tried those games and I always wind up too frustrated to play any further. Warcraft, Age of Empires, Rise of Nations... all of these just have too much going on for me to really get it down. Even working with others to alleviate the mass-management gets frustrating, especially when you don't have the right team mates to counter your own strengths. One game I did like was both real-time and turn-based. That game was Lords of the Realm (2 specifically). The thing I liked was that all of the management issues were handled in a turn-based environment, while the battles were done in real-time maps. This made the real-time portion more fun as you were able to concentrate on the battle strategy and not have to worry about how other things, like your economy, were going.
That brings me to my challenge. To create a real-time battle environment that works in conjuction with the core game. I do, however, have a somewhat specific vision of how this would work...
The Basics
First of all, it would probably be best to make this feature a pre-game option (especially if other things are offered as not to alienate those who prefer the regular way). Of course, it could be a stand-alone if there are no other major changes to the core game. Having an option may also make it easier to integrate into the game in a future expansion, say! Anyway, The battles will seemlessly come in several varieties:
skirmishes - one on one battles that should take no more than a minute or so to complete.
assaults - where one force engages another force
seiges - where a force attacks an occupied citie or other fortification
Of course, these names are aesthetic as the battles will all unfold in the same manner. Basically, the way I see it is that the battle commences when one unit attacks an enemy unit. A seperate, battle-map would appear that encompasses an area of about a 2 tile radius from the unit being attacked (most likely equal to a city radius). For example, if a Roman Infantry attacks a German Rifleman, the center of the map will be where the where the German Rifleman was located. The layout of the Battlemap will reflect that area of the world map in terrain and structures and improvements at a larger scale. So if a city has an ocean to the east, hills to the west, mountains to the North, and forested plains to the south on the world map, it all reflects on the battle-map. All units within the battle radius are placed into the battle (more on this later). The battles could either be played out until the forces of one side is depleted of units or a player retreats from battle. Different factors would come into affect during the battle which could really determine the outcome.
The Units
As I said, units in the battle radius are all included on the battle map. At least, all units that are actively engaged in the war. This includes a third or fourth nation that happens to be in the radius at the time. (Options for how that works will be discussed later.) For every unit that is in the battle radius, a number of sub-units will appear on the battle-map. That number would probably be best fixed accoring to type. On that point, here are my suggestions:
Foot soldiers - 10
Mounted units - 5
Artillery - 3
Vehicles - 3
Air Units - 2
Naval Units - 1
When it comes to air units, I am uncertain how this could be used to affect. I suppose that any air units that happen to be patroling in the battle radius will be included in the battle. As well as any air units that are in cities, airports, or carriers. Anyway, these numbers are negotiable to what would best fit the design, but hopefully provide an idea of what I am getting at. How they are handled could be in one of two ways:
A. The units are tied to a single "battalion" and move as one. In otherwords, an infantry unit would be represented by a battalion of 10 infantry units. Much like how the regular Civ 4 battles are done, the loss of each unit (on the battle map) represents damage to the core (world map) unit.
B. The units work individually, but are still tied to their core units.
On that note, retreat would be handled best if there is a certain amount of time that must pass before retreat can be possible. This is in order to keep players from retreating right away. After the time has passed, the player must move all surviving units to retreats points at the edges of the map or to a designated fortification for players being sieged. Then the command will be available for retreat. Any units left at the end of the battle would have thier turns used up. So if a cavalry unit was in the battle that had not moved prior to the engagement, they will not be able to move after the battle is complete until the players next turn. Also, units who retreated to the edge of the battle map will appear on a space just outside of the battle radius (in the direction they retreated).
Terrain, Improvements and Resources
As said, terrain in the battle map would reflect that of the battle radius on the world map. This is especially important when it comes to coastal areas. For example, ships would be able to bombard the land area. Naturally, it would have affects on the strategies used by the players. I'm sure I need not elaborate on that too much.
Improvements would also play an important role. naturally, roads would make it easier for units to traverse through some terrain. Some improvements will also provide aids in defense. Walls will hinder enemies and fortifications and coastal batteries will have thier own (built-in) artillery which can attack enemy units (if friendly units are their to work them. Otherwise, the enemy can gain control and turn them against the owner. Of course, improvements can be destroyed as well. Artillery, Bombers, tanks and such can damage and destroy the improvements, stealing their advantages. By having none-destructive units (i.e. infantry and cavalry) attack the improvements, they can charge up and gain control of the facilities until the battle ends or they are removed again. On a side note, artillery could be taken in this way as well. This would, of course, reflect on the World Map when the battle is over.
Resources could also play a role. Obiously, since improvements would be in danger of being destroyed, it would add a deeper strategy of defending those resources. One possibility could be to allow units to pillage certain resources. If those units survive the battle, then the resource could do something special for the player. Food could heal units in the battle, luxuries could add to experience of the units, and strategic resources could provide a free unit to the pillaging player. These are all possibilities!
Unit Experience
Speaking of experience, the promotions could still come into play. A unit that has a ranger ability could drive through forest much easier and attack to and from those areas as well, for example. This area may need more thought and suggestions, however!
Summary
All in all, that is the core of the challenge. Of course, there are more elements to explore, and more possibliities for deepening this idea. But, to be honest, it is late, I am tired, and I am sure that others who may like this idea would love to add there ideas. It has been said that with the SDK one can make a game that is based off of civilization 4. As I said, I am no programmer, and with my limited knowledge of the subject, I don't know how hard it would be to integrate this, but I am sure it would not be easy. It may be something that would have to wait until Civilization 5. In any case, the challenge is offered. In a few days, I will be leaving on a ship with limited internet access, but I will check back for any feedback (and progress of those who have accepted this challenge) as often as I can. If anybody does feel up to it, drop a pm to me and I will get you my contact information. I have nothing to offer but my own ideas and suggestions as I am not a professional in any matter. All I ask of the person or people that would take up this challenge is a mention in the credits.
Perhaps when I return later this year, I will be able to provide a little more. Until then, I will see you all around.
Have a nice day!
Sal "Thorburne" Serio
