Challenge-XIV-02

[lymond]

[IMG=right]http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/images/greatgeneral.jpg[/IMG]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!
(*) Games must be played using the >> BUFFY MOD 3.19.003 <<
(*) Games to be submitted via the >> Civ IV Hall of Fame Website <<
(*) New players, please >> register << using your CFC forum name​

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Space Colony (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Noble
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Speed: Normal
• Map Type: Oasis
• Required: Raging Barbarians, One City Challenge
• Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians, Permanent Alliances
• Civ: America
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 1st May to 30th November 2014

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[AgedOne]

I thought I might have a go at this game next. (Game 7 was my first of this Challenge)

Strategic Thoughts
Leader
We can choose any of the American leaders.
I think Lincoln will be my choice, as the Philosophical trait will at least be useful in bringing in Gt People faster (and quicker universities), while Charismatic raises the happy cap a little.
Opponents
No-one should beat us to space at Noble level. On the other hand, no-one will be a useful tech trading partner beyond the ancient era. I guess we can do without anyone who will attack us, as that will be a distraction. Probably packing the world with the max AI permitted will keep them all small. I should also avoid anyone who will go for a cultural victory.
Barbarians
I could go one of two ways on this. (a) Build the Gt Wall, or (b) Keep them off me until the land gaps are filled and they are no longer a menace.
Starting Location
A big, big decision for a OCC on an Oasis map. Do you stay with the gems, or head off for the gold? You could be lucky and find that you have Copper in either location, but you will only find Aluminium in the central 'oasis' zone - along with the gold. I'm swayed towards this central area, and hitting lucky minerals. It could be a recipe for several wasted games, though!
General Tech Approach
Aim for the biggest Oracle slingshot I can achieve. Maybe Civil Service. Maybe something better (I haven't played for a couple of years!) Pick up the Gt Library. University and Oxford not far into AD. Liberalism, taking maybe Physics.
It's the endgame that worries me, though. After such a long break I can still remember that my game often used to peter out towards the end in a OCC. You need a monster city with huge science and productivity.

I just can't remember how that is achieved.

Probably I'll see after the first practice run!

 

[AgedOne]

What I've learned so far...

1. The Great Wall is far easier than trying to fend the little blighters off! I started a couple of attempts - one in the desert region and one in the south - but gave them up because the barb hordes were setting me back so much.

2. While it may be possible to settle in the desert region and get the gold, your city will suffer from too many unproductive desert tiles.

3. I was right to be worried about the end-game. I played one full-length game having settled in the south in a pleasant location with gems, food and hills. Though I was leagues ahead of the AI in tech and built my Apollo Program many turns ahead of anyone else, they gradually overhauled me. Basically, I was incredibly slow in building my spaceship parts, and can't expect to win as the date creeps further through the 20th century!

4. For the massive productivity that you need in the final stages, a water-side location is worth a lot! The ability to use hydro power is a huge bonus.

5. Other means of getting that large productive city: Corporations (Mining, Cereals), the right resources (Copper, Aluminium, Iron, Coal), Civics.

6. You can get culture-squashed, even in a OCC! My very friendly neighbour - Elizabeth - took a lot of my tiles from me in the final stages.

7. Boy, this forum is dead these days! I feel like I'm talking to myself, posting these comments up!

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

I had the same problems. My last attempt had 9 Civs and there was not Aluminum on the entire map (I was in the SW corner and somehow got coal and uranium). I'm thinking I had too many Civs that could trade together. This time I am trying 6 Civs (the min) to see if the raging barbs will hold them back longer term (more empty spaces). I agree, the Great Wall is a must in that scenario.

I certainly do not have the "milking" abilities of many of the rest of you, so take my comments at face value.

I have also been trying to get the Pyramids to switch to Representation asap (when it's convenient). Almost all specialists are assimilated into the city, and science runs at 100%. I've never tried a OCC of any sort before, so one thing I didn't know is the 5 national wonder limit (oops). Oh well, live and learn!

 

[dohh]

LOL, I wish there was a FAIL OF THE MONTH!!

A random event completely destroys my space Project ON THE LAST TURN, when ship should have to arrive...

Epic waste of time...

 

[Pollina]

Here are some good reads for those of you who have never played OCC space games for HOF:

Challenge VI-8 (Emperor, PA allowed)
Challenge VII-9 (Emperor, no PA)
G-minor 133 (Settler, RB):

LOL, I wish there was a FAIL OF THE MONTH!!

Wow, that is brutal. I didn’t even know that event existed. Thanks for reminding me to check the “No Events” option.

 

[dohh]

Strange stuff... again... Now this is demotivating:S Any ideas, guys?

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Ugh, on my last one I lost on time, 3 turns before researching Fusion.... good news is that the AI wasn't close to winning via space (13 turns from culture tho I think). I think I'm getting the hang of it, slowly but slowly....

"Mission Failed"?!?! OMG.... I have *never* seen that either in all of my games. I'll be leaving random events off too it appears....

Talk about a "dohh" moment!

 

[AgedOne]

Glad to see the conversation has suddenly kicked off

...My last attempt had 9 Civs and there was not Aluminum on the entire map...

I know!! In fact, in a OCC, the chances of dropping your city and finding that you have Alu & Copper in your borders just about 0%. Luckily, I have been able to trade for them sometimes

...I certainly do not have the "milking" abilities of many of the rest of you, so take my comments at face value. ...

I was never a natural 'milker' even when I used to play regularly. I had to do it one some occasions, of course, but in general I am just too impatient a player to do that!

...I have also been trying to get the Pyramids to switch to Representation asap ...

Me too! I have a feeling that a location with gold and stone, like on the edge of the desert area, may be the perfect place - and of course you can get those Pyramids without any time-wasting once you have stone.

 

[AgedOne]

Here are some good reads for those of you who have never played OCC space games for HOF:

Challenge VI-8 (Emperor, PA allowed)
Challenge VII-9 (Emperor, no PA)
G-minor 133 (Settler, RB):

Thank you! Really good to see the discussions on these old threads.
I was taking part in the Challenge series just before that time. I think 2011 was when I started to lose interest...
I'm pretty sure I have played some space OCCs before, but it is a while ago, and I need all the help I can get

 

[AgedOne]

LOL, I wish there was a FAIL OF THE MONTH!!

A random event completely destroys my space Project ON THE LAST TURN, when ship should have to arrive...

Epic waste of time...

If I remember correctly, this is not entirely random, unfortunately
If you don't build a full space-ship (i.e. not all 5 casings, thrusters etc) then up in the top-left of the space-ship viewing screen it says that your chance of mission success is something less than 100%.
On your save file at 2036, I checked and it said 20% chance of success.
I think it uses that probability of success, and your space-ship gets a chance of exploding in transit. Sorry.

 

[dohh]

Yeah, did my research after 2nd failure OMFG what a lesson... 6 hours in total wasted!!
Definitely a fail of the month.

Each thruster/casing adds 20% to success possibility... Brutal... Without aluminum that makes about 40 turns extra!!!

 

[AgedOne]

... OMFG what a lesson... 6 hours in total wasted!!

Cue a Bob Hoskins (RIP) Long Good Friday voice: "6 hours! Don't make me laugh! You have to be prepared to sink a lot more than 6 hours into this! Siddown! I'm going to tell you a story"

I looked back after Pollina linked those old games. I have played a game very like this one - back in 2010. It was game 7 of the original Challenge series. OCC. Space. Emperor level.

Now I didn't post much up on the forum thread, but I have a record of long long conversations that I had in PM with my old friend and mentor - who no longer visits these boards.

The truth is, I was going at that challenge for about a month (!) before I was satisfied. I don't know how many games I played. It's probably as well that I've forgotten!

Some of the conclusions that we came to were:

• You are aiming for a finish date in the 1900s. Hopefully earlier!
• The best start has 3 good food, some commerce, forest, river, hills. The food is key!
• You are aiming to settle as many Gt Scientists as possible
• Target Education at 0AD
• Target 1000+ beakers per turn by the final stages

The best I managed was a 1946 finish. The winner got 1862!!

So ... feeling up to the challenge? Ready to get back out there??

 

[dohh]

Hehe, thanks for long answer. My philosophy for gaming is a little bit different. As too many variables affect the outcome of civ 4 game, for perfect result You need a perfect conditions to be met. Therefore I skip looking for HoF start, micro each turn etc. I just dont have time for that...

For example the single fact, whether You can or can not trade aluminium in late game changes Your finish date so much, that You will be far behind or ahead of competitor who started from same start as Yourself.

I sure will give it a nother try, in fact im about to finish it already

My games would be a sample of strong mediocre player who puts not too much effort into pressing the last out of the lemon. I will write a writeup if I feel some game to come out exrtemely well.

These for now... are very mediocre at best...

My notifications for OOC space (in addition to Yours that all are correct).

* Mids is an absolute must.
* Beelining Bureucrazy is a very strong strategy on low level (You can oracle it after researching CoL)
* in addition to gLib, build Parthenon, Na Epic and Globe theatre ASAP. after that You can grab education and beeline to Biology. So You can skip many happiness and health facilities to allow build beakers or military if needed.

In all my games some kind of military involvement is also required to keep control of happenings.

 

[AgedOne]

...Therefore I skip looking for HoF start, micro each turn etc. I just dont have time for that...

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not much of a micro guy myself. In fact I think I was always a big disappointment to my highly micro friend, who would spend many hours lovingly tending each city each turn ... and would be shocked and dismayed when I didn't do the same myself.

My notifications for OOC space (in addition to Yours that all are correct).

* Mids is an absolute must.
* Beelining Bureucrazy is a very strong strategy on low level (You can oracle it after researching CoL)
* in addition to gLib, build Parthenon, Na Epic and Globe theatre ASAP. after that You can grab education and beeline to Biology. So You can skip many happiness and health facilities to allow build beakers or military if needed.

In all my games some kind of military involvement is also required to keep control of happenings.

I'm with you all the way on these
Possible exception of the Parthenon, which I haven't gone for yet. I may, if I keep getting trouble with cultural borders crushing in!

I will write a writeup if I feel some game to come out exrtemely well.

Actually, when I read this it made me think: I tend to want to tell people about my games only if they got quite exciting, or something unusual happened. Like if I succeeded, despite nuclear wars erupting about my head!
If I just, well, tap the space bar 200 times and get a win, then I won't be in a hurry to bore anyone to tears with the details

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Each thruster/casing adds 20% to success possibility... Brutal... Without aluminum that makes about 40 turns extra!!!

Thrusters don't help your success possibility; the more thrusters you have, the faster your ship reaches Alpha Centauri once you launch.
Idem for engines: 2 engines make your ship go faster than only 1 engine.

Casings increase your success possibility; each casing adds 20%, so with all 5 casings, you're 100% sure to reach AC!

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

I don't even know what to say....

It was 1980, Turn 400 of 500. I am absolutely cruising for victory. There is no way Zara will win the UN, since he is not one of the members....

Suddenly, an apostolic palace vote takes place for Diplomatic Victory????!!!!!

And Zara wins via a religious victory???

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO mad.....

What in the heck happened? I was about 40 turns from launch, and no one else had built a spaceship part. In addition, I'm the one who built the Palace eons before, and I CERTAINLY had Mass Media (we had 3 UN votes).

So, my game is now RUINED?! Or is there a flaw that can be bypassed??

 

[AgedOne]

I don't even know what to say....

That really sucks. And you have my sympathies. I can't think of what has happened there.
Would you be able to post up a savegame file? Perhaps one of the autosaves from just before it happened? Then maybe we could find out what went on.

So, my game is now RUINED?! Or is there a flaw that can be bypassed??

I think, sadly, that in a HoF setting, yes - your game is ruined.
There is no going back, of course, once it has happened.

 

[lymond]

If I"m not mistaken, having the Mass Media tech only obsoletes AP for you, not those that don't have it. I can't recall what the threshold is on on complete AP obsoletion.

So you always need to be aware of what is going on with the AP religion globally and prepare to counteract the votes however possible.

 

[TheSunIsDark]

Just realised that I hate the Oasis map. Good food, loads of forests... but no happy resources. There is only one copper, horse or iron that I can see. Handpicked terrible AIs (Churchill, Charlemagne, Tokugawa, Montezuma, Genghis, and one other that I can't remember) that will have no chance. Should have beelined CoL and Drama sooner.

I can't recall what the threshold is on on complete AP obsoletion.

When the builder has discovered Mass Media.