Chieftain too easy, Warlord too big a jump

[jpn4022]

I'll be honest with you, I don't play video games all day every day,
and without micromanaging (only way I can think of winning) I find the jump from Chieftain to Warlord to be too big.

Chieftain is too easy, all you have to do is ignore the money deficit, max the science slider out to 90%, (have to have a little cash) and build everything as fast as you can. Kicking everybody's butt around the block shouldn't be too hard as you'll have all the wonders, first to gunpowder, first to explore the world, and you'll be centuries ahead of all but 1 or 2 of the AIs in your military. I once played a Chieftain game that I had about a thousand modern armor and was rolling across the earth taking over dozens of cities per turn.
I had stacks of 50 armor attacking everybody everywhere, and it wasn't even 1400 AD yet. Launched for Alpha Centauri or wherever you go by 1500, after having driven everyone else onto Arctic island single-city remnants of their former glory. Truth be told, it wasn't that fun of a game. There was no challenge after I wiped out the only 2 other nations that even had Riflemen.
Honestly, the rest of the world tried defending against my modern armor with archers & swordsmen.

The AI gets too much of an advantage with the jump.
I always seem to get shafted on starting location, either sandwiched between two rivals, on an arctic swath of land, mountainous regions, etc.

There's always 2 or more AI nations who get big chunks of land to themselves to develop lightning fast.

I try to build wonders, and occasionally succeed, about 1 in 10.

I never get the lighthouse, therefore I lag in oceanic exploration, until Navigation .

Rarely am I the first to gunpowder.
The AIs cheat, I think.
They trade everything with each other like rabbits.
They never want to trade with me.

I can generate sufficient money to build and live well.
I max out my science development keeping the least income as cash that the budget will stand.

I usually have WAAAYYY more culture than anybody else.
This is because I build within my cities.
AIs don't.
Yet I only very rarely get cultural flips.

I'm usually (playing with 6-8 AIs) the third-ranked military power once we get to modern warfare, if I stick it out that long.

I've tried most every civ that has any European, Middle Eastern or Far Eastern civ that I can pronounce the city names. Sorry folks, my memory has trouble remembering where a city is if I can't even pronounce it.

I realize the levels are SUPPOSED to be harder as you progress up.
I've tried the higher levels and the game is over in a hour or so.
Not fun.

I could win with a cultural victory, but that seems cheap to me.
I also don't like winning by the stupid elimination, capture the kind or whatever its called versions.

The only way to win that there should be, for true world dominating nations, is the space race or complete military victory.

I also think there should be a way for AIs to offer an unconditional or even conditional surrender in a war. Conditional surrender might be something like, "we'll give you 25% of our nation's cities, here's the list."

Unconditional would be "We give up. Our cities are now yours."
And either way, you wouldn't have to beat the crap out of everybody along the way.

Additionally, there should be a way to peacefully merge cities & countries.
This has happened, though rarely, in real world history. Nation #1 swears allegiance to Nation #2, cities switch over peacefully.

Enough of my rant.

I hope Civ 4 is better in some of these areas, especially a more gradual step up to the higher levels. At this point in time, 18 months after I started playing Civ 3, I can't imagine ever winning on the highest levels, without using one of the dopey winning methods like elimination.

Jason

 

[vmxa]

The human is still getting a spot at Warlord, just not as much as at Chief. Being high on culture is not really in your best interest.

As you move up the AI has a discount for trades with the other AI civs, but you can get in the action, IF you have something.

Flips are not really a factor, unless you are trying to hold captured towns Vs a civ with better culture than you, so forget it.

If you want to limit the victory types to Dom/Conquest or SS, just do it. It can be enabled or not for each game.

If you are out expanded by the AI at Warlord, you need to learn to make good use of your empire. It should not happen, unless you have a really bad start location.

Civ4 is a different game altogether. Try looking at Opening Moves by Cracker.

 

[potatokiosk]

Excessive chieftain playing is a good way to learn bad habits.

Culture is merely a tool for filling in the gaps between cities. Once you have a cultural building in a city, forget about it.

And ignore wonders. Never build more than one at a time, and stick to wonders that benefit all game long. I personally avoid wonders prior to the Middle Ages, and don't try to monopolize them until the Industrial Age.

Your main ancient priority is to grab as much land as possible before the AI starts bulking up its military. Constructing a single settler factory (a city that only builds a granary and settlers until the land race ends) while the rest of your empire builds your defences and workers is a good strategy.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Adding to potatokiosk, be sure to build barracks in a couple of
productive cities, and then build your military units there.
Favor offense (horsemen, swordsmen in AA) over defense (spearmen in AA),
since the AI fears them more.

You may need a small war earlier in warlord than chieftain, esp. to secure
iron and to keep it from your neighbor. Having vet units from barracks
will ensure you can win quickly, if your government is republic.

Be mindful of upgrades; horsemen can become cavalry for good middle ages
warfare, and spearmen can make it all the way to mech infantry.
If you have PTW or C3C, then swordsmen upgrade to med. infantry and then
to guerillas; the latter is roughly equivalent to infantry, albeit with a higher
shield cost if you were building from scratch.

Don't be afraid to strike first, and remember to stop, once you've achieved
your objective.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Oh, and on the domestic front ...

Lots of roads mean lots of commerce, leading to faster science and
more gold in the treasury.

Building every city improvement in nearly every city will gradually eat up
your spare gold in upkeep, and you will have to back off on science.
Go with your civ's traits -- if you're religious, build a temple to expand
the city's borders. If you're scientific, skip the temple and build a library.
Get luxuries hooked up to your capital via roads, and build marketplaces,
so that you can keep the luxury slider relatively low.

At warlord, you can still self-research and stay ahead of the AI.
Once you get into the Middle Ages, sell some Ancient Ages techs to the AI
for more gold. You can also sometimes demand a tech from an AI
as part of a peace treaty.

Culture flips are great, when they happen. It happens a lot less than I'd
like, too, even when I've been "leaning" on a little size 1 or 2 city for
a couple hundred years. Just don't count on them. Think of your culture
as expanding your borders (securing resources, and making it harder for AI to
invade in a blitzkrieg) and as insurance against losing cities to the AI
via culture flip.

 

[CommandoBob]

Some things to do to make Chieftain more of a challange (can be combined together or not as you see fit):

• Build no wonders. Capture, sure; build, no.
• Ignore the optional techs (Literacy, Republic, Military Tradition are just a few of them).
• Declare war on your neighbours on the first turn that you meet them. Never make peace. (Always War variant).
• Build only five cities (Five City Challenge).

Some things to do to make the jump to Warlord easier:

• Spend time in the War Academy.
• Read through the Succession Games and see how other people handle the issues of playing at higher levels.
• Join a training Succession Game. There are at least three in progress right now.
  • Civ 3 Conquests: JB01 Newb/Rookie C3C training game...
  • PTW: Nero04:Skipping some levels? It's training day
  • Vanilla: tao_1 vanilla emperor training/succession game
  I am in the last two and invite you to join us. Be sure and read through the posts to get an idea of what is going on. I would join only one; SGs can involve a lot of time and energy.
  If you have Conquests you could even join a 'normal' SG; just let them know that you have not played on that level before. SG's for PTW/vanilla are harder to find.
• Read through this thread, if you have the time GK2- The Training Day Experiment. It has 133 pages.

 

[gmaharriet]

Some more things to make Warlord easier:

* Set barbs to sedentary. The AI is hard enough to fight...barbs are a nuisance, but you probably want to get techs from "goody huts".
* Play with fewer than the normal number of opponents...5 instead of 7 on a standard map, 3 instead of 5 on a small map, etc.
* Keep restarting a new game until you get a map with at least a river and a food bonus.

Some players do not recommend any of this, but I could never have finished a Warlord game at first without making it a bit easier.

 

[Mirc]

The AIs cheat, I think.

As it have been said before, you cheat on Warlord!

 

[vmxa]

Wait I did not say the human cheated as cheating means doing something outside of the agreed rules. A handicap is not a cheat as it was part of the rules to get or give a spot.

If I spot someone 50 going to 100 at straight pool, they did not cheat. Cheating would be if they move a ball when I was not looking.

 

[Mirc]

Ok, I mean that you have the advantage.

 

[Matto the Hun]

I recently got Civ3 Vanilla and I have recently moved from Warlord to getting Regent. I've got a decent handle on it so far. I learned A LOT of stuff from these forums and from the articles written up in the War accademy. They have been vital. What folks have posted in this thread is great advise and pretty much sum up the basics of things you should bear in mind... so I haven't got much to add as far as advise goes.

I will say that I moved to Warlord after my first Cheiftan game and I found it intimidating... at first. After applying the advise from the fine people in these forums Warlord quickly became too easy. I think what helped a lot was focusing on trading, having enough workers, and chilling out on the building of the wonders... they really can be a crutch in excess. In my current Regent game i was stuck on an island... the only wonders I built were GL and GLib.

While the GL was vital to get off my stinking island I could have doe w/o the Great Lib... it was just nice to have and made catching up in techs easier... though I could have traded my way up.

Anyhow, just check out the resourses here, mind the good advise from these folks, stick whith it and have fun... before long Warlord will be waaaaaay too easy for you.

 

[Desertsnow]

° Make sure all tiles worked by your cities have some sort of worker improvement (road, irrigation, etc). Either send your workers to such tiles, or reassign laborers.

° Build defensive units in your frontier cities, and offensive once further in. This keeps your borders and coasts defended, and gives you well-organized stacks to move into enemy territory if you have to go to war.

° Prioritize the improvements that you need most. Temples/Cathedrals for happiness, Libraries/Universities for science, Barracks/Harbours for military power, Markets/Banks for economy, etc. Don't build Colosseums until later in the game, unless you really need them. Their cost of 120 shields makes them too expensive to be worth the pittance of culture and happiness that they provide, at least in the early going.

° Don't try to monopolize wonders. If you're playing for the 20k single-city culture victory, that's one thing. But really, otherwise, build only the ones that you will need.

° Unconditional surrender at war is possible at all levels, as is conditional surrender that favors the human--you just have to be really kicking their butt to get the latter.

° Choose civilizations that mitigate your weaknesses. For instance, if you're losing wars, play a military civilization, or if you're getting cultural pressure, choose a religious one, etc. Just mind to wean yourself from this need as you learn the game.

 

[Illusion13]

Cheiftain to Warlord is hardly a jump at all... Warlord jump to Monarch is a jump. (For further information on how hard its been for me check out my topic at the Civ 3 Strategy forum >.>)

Anyways, at the momment you probably dont realize the greatness wonders are cause you've always had them, and you've always had them all. Under Cheiftain there is already a HUGE bonus for you... It probably feels no different to you whether you're 5 techs ahead or a whole age ahead because you're ahead by heaps (The wonders might get you more ahead, thats what I am saying). Now in Cheiftain you probably wanted to give most cities full room for all 21 tiles to be used towards that city. Now for Cheiftain thats probably what everyone does cause it gives the city all the good stuff so you can make super cities. One word for higher up levels: DONT. Super cities do absolutely NO good in higher levels because the AI are so much ahead in tech anyways. 10 cities each producing a unit every 7 turns beats out 3 super cities that can do one unit every 2 turns. Super tech cities are gonna be no good in high level games simply cause you cant keep up, and you cant get the necessary wonders for making those uber cities...

Now, for start, tighten up your cities a little. Start getting heaps of military. Ignore happiness buildings and rely on the slider and lux to stop unhappiness. At that level you should be able to handle it cause of the base content you get. Be more aggressive at trying to reveal the world.

I am not gonna tell you to stop researching your own techs and buy it from the AI, cause I'll be smoking if I say that you can effectively rely on the AI to sell you techs at Cheiftain/Warlord level (trust me, they're dead slow...). Instead, still research your own stuff. You can still build wonders but dont bother trying to hog them.

Military wise I myself dont even know how to fight ancient age wars due to the wide spread of AI cities and the distance between cities. Though many people know how to effectively kill using Swordsmen... Now when you get knights, you can start stationing them just outside of the AI's border in stacks of about 10 (at your level 10 Knights will be able to rump on anything, but at higher level you'll be needing more, but the concept is the same.) Once you get one or two stacks up, go in for the kill. Knights are good cause they are fast and can take a city in the first turn of declaring war. Thereby you can take about 3 or 4 cities before the AI even gathers its troops. The key is to take whatever your objective is, and to keep pressing on the AI. Then once you run low on attackers, (assuming still on the winning side... If not on the winning side I suggest you reinforce your attack and get on the winning side even if you have to defend your territory), go up to their city, and offer peace. Try to threaten something out of them >.> At Cheiftain/Warlord level, you can easily get them to cough up one or two size 1/2 city, those will be important on your road to gaining territory.

There isnt much I can teach you, other than to be more aggressive. Dont try to get on the AI's good side cause you fear they will attack you. Who cares if they're furious at you, if they're furious, attack them. Make them cough up whatever it is that you want. (I remember trying to beat a tech our of this civ on my game, it was fun ^_^)

Remember, fill up those gaps in your land to be more productive. And just a trick, the turn before you get a tech, go to your F1 screen and lower the tech slide to whatever % that will still get you the tech in one turn. You'll make heaps more money that way >.>

 

[Corwin of Amber]

Pretty good advise above. Try to learn more about what stuff does for you. I didn't realize harbors produced more food at first, I thought you needed them to build ships. After I built them my coastal cities grew like crazy! In the course of my first warlord game by learning things I have gone from losing rather badly to being on the verge of victory.

 

[k-a-bob]

The best advise I could give you is to read the War Academy on this site. That along with reading some strategy threads made my skill level jump from winning at Warlord to winning at Emperor.

I also still do not do THAT much micromanaging.

 

[Corwin of Amber]

I'm also trading aggressively. I worked hard in the early game to get this spot with five incense, and secure iron. Now I'm always trading the incense with somebody for something. And if you sweeten the pot with a little gold you'll be surprised what you can get.

 

[Desertsnow]

Harbors are what you need to upgrade your ships. But you figured that one out already, probably?

Trading is good. Get luxuries, get tech, get whatever. It's good for your progress, and good for diplomacy.

 

[seanos08]

Harbours are also essential for getting 2 food from sea squares. Once initial expansion is over build coastal cities on tundra and desert and build harbours in them. They won't be productive but will be good in science and commerce.

Plus oil, aluminium and uranium can often appear in tundra and desert in the ind/mod eras.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

There is a large jump from chieftain to warlord. The game does change pretty radically - the first time I went, I was shocked to find out that barbarians could actually kill my warriors!!!

It's a bit of a shock, really.

But you don't *have* to move up. I like playing chieftain - try to figure out how fast you can get all the wonders, for instance. The game changes radically - you have to drive it, for instance, if you want to win the space race - cause the AI is moving slower than you.

 

[candela]

Whenever I moved up a difficulty, I played on the smallest map possible. It was a lot easier for me to manage everything.