Chineses Invasion of Tibet

[General Brown]

I recently discovered that Tibet, (Land of Dalai Lama) was once independent. I was wondering if anybody knew any information or links about the invasion, and whether the normally peaceful Tibetians put up a fight?

 

[Adso de Fimnu]

Well, there's some contention as to whether Tibet was "invaded". Many consider it to have been a region of China since the 13th century, as it was then that Tibet and China were first united, under the Yuan dynasty. These same people may tell you that Tibet wasn't invaded in 1959, but that China dispatched troops to prevent the secession of the Tibetan élite who opposed the abolition of slavery.
(As for myself, I don't know enough to form an opinion.)

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Of course, Tibet was once an independent nation. They were even a threat to China, during the Tang era, with Tibetan armies marauded against the Chinese all the way from Xinjiang to Sichuan. They even managed to burn down the ancient city of Chengdu once. Barbarians.

The Qing dynasty brought Tibet firmly within its orbit (because Tibet was the religious center of the troublesome Mongol tribes); though I'm not certain on the actual formalities. There was a Qing amban based at Lhasa; sort of like the British Resident during the colonial era.

The Communists used this as a pretext to invade and conquer Tibet in the early 50s; India didn't react much due to Nehru's 'brotherly peace' overtures to China. In 1959 (or thereabouts), the Tibetans rebelled but were no match for the modern PLA (which had just finished the Korean War a few years earlier). The Dalai Lama was driven to exile in India.

The Tibetans deserved better; though I'm certainly not fond of the autocratic and medieval politico-religious structure of the Dalai Lama theocracy.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Like Mongolia, Tibet was only voluntarily under Chinese control during the Qing dynasty, and it was largely ignored and let to suffer (like during the Gurkha invasions, Tibet was forced to fend for itself). There was no legitimate pretext for the Chinese invasion. Whether or not the Dalai Lama regime is a good governance or not is largely irrelevant IMO.

 

[silver 2039]

The Communists used this as a pretext to invade and conquer Tibet in the early 50s; India didn't react much due to Nehru's 'brotherly peace' overtures to China. In 1959 (or thereabouts), the Tibetans rebelled but were no match for the modern PLA (which had just finished the Korean War a few years earlier). The Dalai Lama was driven to exile in India.

Yeah and look how that turned out. In gratidue China promptly invaded India and stole it's territory.

 

[Jeff Yu]

Like Mongolia, Tibet was only voluntarily under Chinese control during the Qing dynasty, and it was largely ignored and let to suffer (like during the Gurkha invasions, Tibet was forced to fend for itself). There was no legitimate pretext for the Chinese invasion. Whether or not the Dalai Lama regime is a good governance or not is largely irrelevant IMO.

Well, to be fair, it did take a while for the Qing troops to actually get there. Once there, they repelled the invasion and launched a counter-invasion into Nepal against the Gurkhas.

And I wouldn't say Mongolia was voluntarily under Chinese control, or at least not all of it. The Chahar Mongols (those who now live in Inner Mongolia) were allied with the Manchus and part of the royal family, but the Khalka and Dzungar Mongols were conquered and brought under control with military campaigns. That's why they declared independence while the ones in Inner Mongolia didn't. In fact, the Qing first took control of Tibet during the campaigns against the western Dzungar Mongols. The Dzungars were launching a military campaign into Tibet, and the Qing armies pre-empted them by taking Tibet first.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Yeah and look how that turned out. In gratidue China promptly invaded India and stole it's territory.

Territory that was never recognized by the Chinese. It was simply an imaginary line drawn on the map by the British; which the Indians conveniently took over.

The Chinese would prefer to have negotiated (like they did with Burma; and giving up a large tract to the Burmese). But no, the Indian press was crying for blood, and whipping up the masses. Until Nehru had no choice but to give the go ahead for a half-hearted (and badly planned) campaign.

Now, stop the thread-jacking. This thread is about Tibet, not India.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Well, to be fair, it did take a while for the Qing troops to actually get there. Once there, they repelled the invasion and launched a counter-invasion into Nepal against the Gurkhas.

It was one of the more brilliant (and hardest) campaigns ever conducted by the Banners. And against the Gurkhas.

And I wouldn't say Mongolia was voluntarily under Chinese control, or at least not all of it. The Chahar Mongols (those who now live in Inner Mongolia) were allied with the Manchus and part of the royal family, but the Khalka and Dzungar Mongols were conquered and brought under control with military campaigns. That's why they declared independence while the ones in Inner Mongolia didn't. In fact, the Qing first took control of Tibet during the campaigns against the western Dzungar Mongols. The Dzungars were launching a military campaign into Tibet, and the Qing armies pre-empted them by taking Tibet first.

The Khalkhas, I believe, joined the Qing willingly. They were coming under intense pressure by the Dzungars and Russians. At a khurikiltai (sp?), their lamas declared that the Manchus were fellow Buddhists, and decided that the Khalkha tribes would join them, rather than the alien Russians.

 

[Verbose]

You can always pick up Dalai Lama's account of the whole business. He wrote a book about it.

 

[EquinoxOmega]

There is also a movie about it: "Seven years in Tibet".

 

[King Alexander]

Thing is that Westerners know VERY little about China's History(maybe they're 'manipulated' in not caring enough, since China is the 'bad communist' country).

To form an opinion, someone needs to search enough, and find info from many different sources, not only by westerner-films: all countries have done mistakes, one way or another, and seeing/learning only one particular sides' view, won't help much to understand what really happened and why(someone also has to have in mind all the previous circumstances that led to a particular outcome).