chopping wonders nerfed in xpac?

[futurehermit]

i was playing a warlords game yesterday. i hooked up stone and started the pyramids. i chopped a forest and only got 20 hammers (normal speed). i was like, WTH? i'm sure the stone is hooked up. so, i checked, and yep, it was hooked up, i was getting double production on my mines.

i tried it again in another game and got the same result.

has anyone else noticed this? is this a nerf to chopping wonders?

do trait-based buildings (e.g., cheap barracks with aggressive) also not get 2x production to chops anymore?

how about industrial trait on wonders? do industrial leaders get 2x production to chops?

if it's true that you don't get 2x production on wonders when you have the appropriate resource hooked up, that is a pretty big nerf imo to wonder building!

 

[Ammar]

i was playing a warlords game yesterday. i hooked up stone and started the pyramids. i chopped a forest and only got 20 hammers (normal speed). i was like, WTH? i'm sure the stone is hooked up. so, i checked, and yep, it was hooked up, i was getting double production on my mines.

i tried it again in another game and got the same result.

has anyone else noticed this? is this a nerf to chopping wonders?

do trait-based buildings (e.g., cheap barracks with aggressive) also not get 2x production to chops anymore?

how about industrial trait on wonders? do industrial leaders get 2x production to chops?

if it's true that you don't get 2x production on wonders when you have the appropriate resource hooked up, that is a pretty big nerf imo to wonder building!

This is not new, but was in one of the patches for vanilla as well. Note that Mathematics increases the hammers for chopping to 30. Boni seem to work. At least when I chop as Imperialistic I get the boni for producing settlers.

 

[phaves]

I noticed this to when chopping the Pyramids with stone hooked up but when I checked the build info I noticed that. The way hammers from tree chopping are added to builds has been changed in Warlords. Instead of them going straight to the build when they are chopped (ie mid-turn) the hammers are added to the base production hammers for that turn. I assume this is stop the building settlers while growing trick but I'm not sure. Any production bonus is then applied to the base hammers.

So in short no your are not gettng screwed. The message is about base hammers not final hammers.

 

[phaves]

Thinking about it this will also stop the building while in anarchy trick (as seen in the marathon diety strat a while back) as chopping adds to base hammers and these will not be added to the build until the end a of a non-anarchy turn. (I assume, I have not tried this).

 

[futurehermit]

The way hammers from tree chopping are added to builds has been changed in Warlords. Instead of them going straight to the build when they are chopped (ie mid-turn) the hammers are added to the base production hammers for that turn. I assume this is stop the building settlers while growing trick but I'm not sure. Any production bonus is then applied to the base hammers.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this, could you explain it a little more?

 

[phaves]

Check out this screen shot and you can see the chop hammers and base production hammers listed and then the bonus applied. This is new to Warlords in previous versions chopped hammers had bonus applied and went straight to the bottom line.

Hope this helps.

 

[futurehermit]

i'm still confused. i don't understand the difference between base and chopped hammers. i thought base was what you're getting from worked tiles each turn and chopping was a one-time thing. thus i don't understand how chopping can go toward base hammers?

 

[phaves]

Chopped hammers are still different from base hammers. What I was trying to say was that in Warlords the chopped hammers are now applied to the build at the end of the turn (like base hammers) and the bonus is applied then. In vanilla Civ 4 the chopped hammers were applied at the time of chopping (mid-turn) and the bonus applied then.
This difference in when the bonus is applied accounts for now seeing 20 hammers to x city instead of 40 hammers to x city.
I hope from the screenshot you can at least see you are not missing out on the bonus from chopped hammers.

 

[Thyrwyn]

This was done to prevent the build switching tactic for chopping settlers w/out hindering growth.

The tactic was:
interrupt the chop with one turn left; switch your build to settler mid turn; complete the chop (hammers go to settler); switch back to previous build; end turn.

Some considered this an exploit (apparently, Firaxis did, too).

With the change, hammers from the chop will go towards whatever is in the queue at the end of the turn. As the screen shot shows, hammers produced through chops are still affected by traits, resources, and buildings.

 

[futurehermit]

ah, ok, i get it now! i was using this 'exploit' on settlers and noticed the hammers went to something else, but i didn't put 2 and 2 together...thanks folks!

 

[cabert]

IMHO the exploit isn't queue swapping for chopping(although it's impossible now), it's the "build during anarchy/revolt" trick.

I used to (and i still do, no warlords for me yet) chop a few forests around freshly conquered city (still revolting) for getting some hammers into several buildings, then whipped all of them without penalty (other than happiness!) from the first turn.