City improvements when there's nothing really needed...

[chris88]

I'll try to keep this short, but I need to explain the situation before I ask the question I guess!

Playing at Warlord level in conquests, actually have two games going on this level - in one I'm the Arabs, in the other, I'm the Mayans (love the Javelin Throwers!).

I try not to build the Great Library so I can challenge myself, (though I have captured it in one of the games above). But I find myself in a quandry when the middle ages roll around.

I get to a stage where I fall beind in tech research. I try to trade techs with the AI and am only partially successful. So because I am trying to research these techs, I don't have a lot of money.

But the real issue arrives when my older, more established cities, start getting to the stage where they finish certain improvements or units, and I'm prompted as to what to build next.

Because I don't have a heap of techs, the number of city improvements I have to choose from to build is limited. And because I don't have a lot of money, I don't want to keep building units which cost me $$$ to maintain.

Not only that, some of the improvements also cost $$$ to maintain - for example, I try to steer clear of collesiums because they cost money and I don't really have a lot of happiness issues (roads hooked up to luxs, temples/cathedrals/markets, a MP or two in each town etc)

So my question is multipronged I guess - how do I get out of this type of vicious cycle, but also - what can I put in cities as improvements when I have very few options for those improvements?

Finally - the "building wealth option" - is it an option, what does it exactly do (I know sort of what it does), and are there any benefits/drawbacks to this that experienced players have encountered?

Thanks so much!

 

[Dreadnought]

Wealth gives you money depending on the amount of shields made in your city (ratio)

Are you saying that when you rn out of things to build you build units? Try wealth.

 

[chris88]

Thanks Dreadnought - actually, I try to avoid building units when I run out of things to build, and was wondering if building wealth was an option (apart from doing the occasional pre-build for an upcoming wonder).

How does this wealth ratio work?

 

[killercane]

Post a save game, but in general, build units, units, and more units. You're probably building too many improvements if your cities dont have anything else to build in your core (established cities). Your first ring cities should not have to build a courthouse or something like that. Selectively building improvements is the best way to good fiscal management.

It also sounds like you're in monarchy, which isnt great to research/build in. If you want to build, go for republic. If you want to war, monarchy is alright, and republic is fine as well.

Building wealth is almost never the best thing to do. Go conquer some more territory with the units you build.

 

[Stylesjl]

Build units and disband them in the outer cities

 

[NintendoNut]

Don't build to many improvments. Build units, whoop the AI, then demand techs and gold for peace.

Wealth creates one gold for every eight sheilds the city produces. After you research Econmics, it's one gold every four sheilds.

 

[ac196nataku]

Is that a C3C change? I'm almost certain that in vanilla, you only get 1 gold regardless of the shields produced.

 

[shady milkman]

Thanks Dreadnought - actually, I try to avoid building units when I run out of things to build, and was wondering if building wealth was an option (apart from doing the occasional pre-build for an upcoming wonder).

How does this wealth ratio work?

I believe the wealth ratio is:

Four shields produced in a city = one gold per turn from said city. It might be three. I'm not certain. If you build wealth, this will give you more money, thereby boosting the amount of room you have to juggle the science slider.

EDIT: just saw NintendoNut's reply. Eight? I had no idea it was that high...

 

[Bluemofia]

Build units and conquer.

 

[Sadan01]

Is that a C3C change? I'm almost certain that in vanilla, you only get 1 gold regardless of the shields produced.

According to the Civilopedia for Vanilla (I usually play C3C), before attaining the tech of Economics, the ratio is 8 shields to one gold piece.

After Economics, the ratio reduces to 4 shields to one gold piece. I guess the Civilopedia could be wrong. I haven't played a vanilla game since C3C arrived on the scene. Maybe someone else could confirm if this is true or not...

 

[Bluemofia]

No, civpedia not wrong. In vanilla it normally is 8:1. After Economics, 4:1. In Conquests, it's normally 4:1. After Economics, 2:1. Economics halves the shield/gold ratio.

 

[ac196nataku]

Interesting, I never noticed getting more than 1 gold from wealth. Maybe its because I rarely use it on reasonable production cities.

 

[SJ Frank]

If you don't feel like building units and fighting, one thing you could do is "pre-build".

Pre-building is when you start a building project with the intention of switching it to something else later on. Most players use pre-build to build wonders. For example, when they want the Great Library, they start on a palace many turns before they learn Literature. When they finally learn literature, they switch the almost completed palace to the Great Library. That's how players compete against the AI on higher levels.

But pre-build is not just for wonders. Some regular improvements are really expensive too. An university costs 200 shields. If you think about it, that's half a Pyramids, and you have to build it in every city!

So, what you could do is to start building something else that's expensive, like a cathedral, some number of turns before you research Education. Then, when you research Education, you can finish your universities sooners, and therefore reap the benefits of the universities sooner.

The toughest thing is to determine when to start the pre-build (for example, how many turns before learning education should you start building cathedrals). If you start too early, then you may finish the cathedrals before you learn education. If you start too late, then you're missing out on much of the benefit of pre-building. This is the part that takes some micro-management to get right.

* * *

A few other points:

- you should almost never, ever build wealth. If you really have nothing else to build, then build newer, better units to replace and disband the older units. That's a better deal than running wealth and using the money to ungrade the old units.

- If you're not researching fast enough, chances are there are things you could improve . If you improve on these things, then you should have no problem with "having nothing to build". A great place to learn is the Succession Games Forum. . Some great threads to start you off can be found in this post .

 

[BasketCase]

If you're out of stuff to build, but don't want to build wealth: build some units specifically for disbanding in other cities to speed up production in that city. It's pretty inefficient; disbanding a unit in a city only adds one-fourth of the unit's shield cost to whatever that city is building. But 75% waste is better than 100% waste.

 

[Twonky]

If you want a city to support the production of another, building&disbanding units is superior to wealth. Assuming you have a 40 shields per turn city, wealth would net you 20 gpt after economics, with which you can rush 5 shields. Building&disbanding a 40 shield unit (like a cavalry every 2nd turn) gives you 10 shields. That´s 100% more than wealth.

 

[namliaM]

I try not to build the Great Library so I can challenge myself, (though I have captured it in one of the games above). But I find myself in a quandry when the middle ages roll around.

Good... No building wonders

I get to a stage where I fall beind in tech research. I try to trade techs with the AI and am only partially successful. So because I am trying to research these techs, I don't have a lot of money.

At what stage? How many contacts do you have? What map type are you playing?

But the real issue arrives when my older, more established cities, start getting to the stage where they finish certain improvements or units, and I'm prompted as to what to build next.

Because I don't have a heap of techs, the number of city improvements I have to choose from to build is limited. And because I don't have a lot of money, I don't want to keep building units which cost me $$$ to maintain.[/QUOTE]Simple build units, use the units against the other civs, both getting you more cities (thus more support for more units, lowering upkeep) + losing some units in the process (unfortunate but this happenes + lost units = lower upkeep)

Not only that, some of the improvements also cost $$$ to maintain - for example, I try to steer clear of collesiums because they cost money and I don't really have a lot of happiness issues (roads hooked up to luxs, temples/cathedrals/markets, a MP or two in each town etc)

Good, only build stuff you need... Like units , war is much needed (in most games) units are never wasted.
If you absolutely run out of things, build a settler and/or "war" units...
On MP, What type of government are you in? MP means you are either still in depotism or Monarchy, try switching to Republic.
Less support for units and NO MP, but much more $$ for research.
Also did you road + Mine/Irrigate every tile? Particularly road....

In general tho, you should not build too many temples and Cathedrals. Just have a market, a lib and a courthouse in every <core> town. Then add a University and a bank when the time comes.
Important too is knowing when to build what... If you have the sliders high on research (which one usually has) build libraries, and delay markets...
My -general- order for -peace- builds is Library-University-Market-Bank-Courthouse
Tho if you run into happyness problems and have more than 2 luxuries, the market may move up and offcourse you need "higher" techs for the Uni and Bank, so that may change too... If you dont have the tech yet.
Also you may need to throw in an Aqueduct somewhere...

Remember you dont need all your population happy, you just need to have as many people happy as there are unhappy.

Finally - the "building wealth option" - is it an option, what does it exactly do (I know sort of what it does), and are there any benefits/drawbacks to this that experienced players have encountered?

Wealth = NEVER ever ever set any city to Wealth, Maybe in some extreem cases... But NEVER ever ever build wealth in particular before Economics (like others said).
Always build more more more. If all else fails and you cannot build anything anymore (very unlikely really) Then start building a (usefull) wonder like maybe Copernicus Obs, which acts like an additional Lib IIRC.

Thanks so much!

Your welcome, if I helped...

 

[Fried Egg]

I suspect that Chris's problem is that he is not expanding enough (i.e. building enough cities). If he is keeping up (in technology) at first but then falling behind, that is a symptom of building too few cities. If you expand enough early on, the reverse tends to happen (in my experience): You fall behind at first but then catch up and then rocket past.

Regarding Wealth, I quite like it actually. It's good for peaceful players with Republic and Democratic governments in cities that need no further improvements. In such circumstances, building more and more units is not always a good idea because of the high unit support costs. Gold is what you need for rushing builds, increasing research, upgrading old units, etc.

 

[Sybot]

I used Wealth in some of my cities that had built everything they could while I was waiting to research tanks to invade the other continent, having already conquered mine. A few productive cities on Wealth can provide enough gpt to allow me to research on 100% without a deficit.

 

[eldar]

In rubbish outer cities, just build workers, use them to irrigate the land, and turn them into specialist farms. Two irrigated grassland = 6 food, allowing 1 citizen to be turned into a specialist. Uncorrupted gold or science.

 

[ForbiddenPalace]

Try to maximize the population in the core cities and work hard on terrain improvements. Expand to a level where you need to build the FP, and you should be fine.