City placement: 3rd city and beyond

[Sir Donald III]

Getting back to topic, I have a confession to make:

I am not all that keen on settling cities where our "First 8" would be occupied by a foreign power.

Besides the culutre war (which we can win, but...) it means that said foriegn power can attack the city from their own territory.

Justified fear? Baseless? Justified but you want to risk it anyway? Comment, please! It may affect the upcomming Poll!

 

[Cyc]

Our "First 8" would not be occupied by a Foreign power. The three Cattle would give us what we needed for growth and production to out pace Elippi (or whatever that Bab city is). Their growth would not involve the Cattle. Our out pacing them in Culture would, as you say, allow us to "win".

In Civ3 there is a offensive bonus given when attacking from within your own city, but there is no bonus for attacking from within your own territory. Therefore we have the same advantage as they do.

Therefore, and with all due respect to our honored Domestic Leader-elect, I say baseless. And worth the risk. If we quit messin' around and plant the damn city it would be a great one. This aqueduct you people keep crying about is a minmal concern for a plains city. It will get done. We don't need hills either. Grass would be nice though...so would three cattle before expansion.

 

[invy]

i hope everything is ok now.
If its right what you say and its now turn 9 than we lost 2 turns not 1. Because settler needs 2 more turns to settle. Seems like CT moved settler in wrong direction and than needed 1 extra turn to get it back. I hope CT will make clear what happened during TC, if it was a mistake, well it happens, we are humans and we make mistakes. We'll just forget about it.

One thing i like now with 8c, where is now our settler, are hills for production and the fact that we don't need to move anymore. Anyway 8e is also great place.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Cyc, I was not refering to 8 East. I was refering to some of Civman's City placements which had one tile of its "First 8" within the "First 8" of Pompei.

 

[Cyc]

Cyc, I was not refering to 8 East. I was refering to some of Civman's City placements which had one tile of its "First 8" within the "First 8" of Pompei.

Ah! Sorry. And I agree.

 

[Civman2004]

Hmm point taken. In defense of my suggestion though, remember though that my suggested city placement is not necessarily intended to be a permanent settlement site - just long enough to deprive the Romans of Iron until we take Pompeii. An alternative would be to settle on the hill west of the Iron, which would eat into our existing territory more.

I'm just conscious that if we let the Romans get Iron it's going to be a fair period before we can attack them - we'd either need a lot of units or Samurai at the least, which is a long way off.

 

[DaveShack]

If we have reasonably equal culture, we can afford to settle with overlapping radii, build a temple, and try to flip the opposing city before we get around to war. Use the placement which is most likely to actually deny the iron, and we need to hurry a temple along one way or the other.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Current options are under Poll.

 

[Sir Donald III]

"Pisae and Intombe Founded on Sites 8 and 4N! Akkyad falls short, but Bab Pair still Active!"


We are running out of land to settle in.

The good news is that, thus far, our Northen Expansion remains relatively unchecked, though I should probably reserve such statemnts for after Next TC.

As for now, we have a settler proceeding posthaste to 1 South and will get there in 3 turns. We also have a settler sitting right on 2 West, ready to set down when the DP gives the order.

Given the current situation, I may poll on a change in the latter order. (It would be a "Veto" Poll with a Majority required to change. I mean, after all, while 2W got 7 votes, Sector 3 beat Sector 2 by 1.)

I will also repoll for Future Settlers. With land now at a Premium, we will have to make these cities count.

Map shows what I mean.

The Dark Red Arrow depicts the path I want our Western Settler to take if at all possible. (If foreign units are near, the DP may detour East.)

The Light Blue arrow points to the site designated "Sector 0" or "Zulu Coast". There is a dashed arrow from Site 1S to Sector 0 indicating a contingency instruction. (i.e. if the Zulus are already at Sector 1, go to Sector 0.)

The Yellow Square is Site 2W, where, since Sector 8 is now owned by the Romans, the settler on that site is tasked to.

Given the military situation, I may advocate to change this settler to Sector 3 should a majority go along with this action. There would be 2 such alternate sites, listed as Orange and Red.

Red is also designated as a "new City Site" in the new "Future Settlers" Poll. The Green Square (former 7 West) and the Light Blue Arrow would be the other options in thsi poll.

Any other ideas, now's the time!

 

[invy]

quote: The Dark Red Arrow depicts the path I want our Western Settler to take if at all possible. (If foreign units are near, the DP may detour East.)
---
We are in war now and that warrior needs to escort settler and garisson newfounded 1S city. There may be iroqious or barbarians in unexplored area.

 

[Sir Donald III]

I associate the Escorting Warrior as part of the Settler Team. This specific path for the settler and warrior maximizes exploration and possibly allows for a "Zulu Coast" site.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Okay. We didn't get any new settlers this past TC, but we have settled the two previously directed cities.

From the info gathered from this poll, the choice order is hereby listed (on the map below) as Eastern Gems (Red), Roman Iron (Yellow), Zulu Coast (Green), and Rik's Lake (Blue).

However, situations have changed.

On a minor note, we now know where the "Zulu Coast" site would be. While we do not yet have full knowledge of the tile itself, we do know that it is part of Jungle, and is right next to where the river meets the Sea. We also know, that it, and the tile across the river, do not get the nearby Horses within Temple Range. (For that, I have envisioned a "Pink" site where there is a river source and the horses are immediately adjacent. [EDIT: No it isn't, there is no River "Access" htere, or else we would've settled Regent probably 1 West of where it is. Anyway,] This, however, is a low-priority site at this time.)

Our more immediate concern is with the "Eastern Gems" site. As it currently stands, the Babylonians have completely crowded the area out. (Maybe they're trying to flip Neapolis?)

Fortunately, as it currently stands, most of the Gems under threat from Eridu are under the protection of the Temple of Epolenep. They may contest for the Middle one, however.

Anyway, IIRC, the site originally proposed is marked in the Red Square. This is 2 tiles South of Eridu.

I have returned to my original (from about a month ago) site, which is now marked in Orange, as an alternate. It takes 1 tile of threat off of Eridu , (which could be both bad and good,) but puts Neapolis directly in play.

By range, Both TR's hit Eridu at Phase 2. For Neapolis, Orange hits it in Level 3, while Red requires Level 4.

Of course, the ball swings both ways.

So, our options at present are:

Stay with Red
Go to Orange
Skip this crowd entirely and go to Yellow
Skip any agression and go to Green

Okay, thoughts?

 

[Cyc]

Personally, I believe orange and red are both useless, Blue should be 1 tile to the SE, Green should be one tile to th NW, and the yellow shouldn't even be considered. Pink maybe a good site, but until we clear the fog, we won't know if one of the surrounding sites is better.

 

[Rik Meleet]

You can bet your life that Eridu has Oil or Saltpeter.
Blue is ok, Green 1 tile NW, I can live with red (if it's on a river), I don't like yellow's location, perhaps a bit more (3 or 4) tiles north; into the jungle.

 

[Chieftess]

@SDIII - correction, we do have one settler in Furuyama right now.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Oh, thanks, Chieftess. Thjat one is enroute to "The Disputed Region", isn't it?

Rik [Edit: AND Cyc]: Green won't nab the Horses if it stays on the Coast, whichever position wins out. So I'd like to keep it on our side of the river for the 25% Defense Bonus.

The Entire purpose of Yellow is the denial of Roman Iron. With our war vs Iros over, we should look ahead to making Rome submit either to our heel or our blade. (Heel means we don't go to war, but Rome lives basically at our leisure.)

 

[Chieftess]

The one is en route to the next gem site, which is getting kind of crowded... (and here I thought the demogame didn't like ICS builds. )

 

[Donovan Zoi]

ICS is fine in areas of limited growth, such a mountains, desert or tundra. Although they should only be pursued after our core cities are in place, which I believe we have done for the most part.

 

[MOTH]

Blue is the way to go. If we don't get there soon then Rome, Babs, or the Iroq's will send a settler pair to these hills in the next 20 turns or so.

As for location: Cyc thinks it should go 1 SE and Rik thinks it fine where it is. I agree with Rik that it is fine where it is as it can share Immo's wheat to promote growth and become a top shield producer over time. To be fair, SE does get to share 1 (shared) flood plain and has the 3 lakes and 1 grass which should let it grow to about size 12 before RR.

As for the culture war: I think Immo (and Blue) need a Temple asap to expand the borders and start squeezing both the Babs and Romans.

@SD3: could future discussions about future settler's be in a new thread? We are now far beyond the 3rd settler...

 

[Sir Donald III]

@SD3: could future discussions about future settler's be in a new thread? We are now far beyond the 3rd settler...

Wish Granted!