Civ 2 player can't get going in Civ 3.

[eikoop]

I have been a casual CIV 2 player for the last several years.
Unfortunately, my brain appears to be hard wired in CIV 2 game and I can't seem to get a good game going in CIV 3.

In CIV 2 I would play at emporer - second hardest - and usually kick butt. My favorite CIV 2 approach was as follows..
1. Get Monarchy and Republic ASAP.
2. Build Pyramids / Hanging Gardens/ Great Library.
3. With my science/growth, and happiness shored up - build superiore military units and start taking over other civs.

Once I got off to this fast Ancient start, I was able to keep my science growing at a rate of one advance per 4 to 6 turns. I usually had a big enough tech lead over other civs. I could attack as well has build other key wonders - Michelangelo, Magellin, Leanardo etc..

Now CIV 3..
Even at 2nd easiest level science is so slooooow. What is this 30 to 40 turns per advance?? Every game I try to struggle to make a bee line to Monarchy. Unfortunately, while I am researching Polytheism the AI attacks me and forces me to go on a military footing. I quit the game and start another one.

Questions..
Is there any way to ramp up and grab Monarchy or Republic any faster? How do I get my science to go faster? It seems to me that the longer you stay in despotism the slower your growth and worse your science is - they feed on each other.

In some games I have noticed that to get to one advance it takes 10 turns and another it takes 40. Whats up with that? Is this due to weighting the age the advance corresponds to i.e. Monarchy is not ancient - takes more, warrior code ancient takes less?

Any strategies thoughs appreciated.

Eikoop

 

[eyrei]

You must trade techs with the other civs to keep up. They will trade a tech to all the other civs the turn they get it in most cases. You will fall way behind if you don't get in on this from the start. Forget most of your civ2 strategies, they no longer work.

 

[Mike C]

You might want to check your domestic advisor screen and increase the science funding rate.

Technologies shouldn't require 30+ turns to research if you have anywhere near a decent level of funding.

 

[eikoop]

At despotism arent you stuck to 50 Science, 50 Tax no Luxuries?

Force of habit from old game. Am I wrong?

 

[eyrei]

No. You can change it but it will not make much difference as far as science goes. You might even set your science at 10% to make a little extra cash. Still 32 turns per advance.

 

[eikoop]

How does cash on hand help your science? Is this used when trading with other civs? You can't buy and advance can you?

 

[Bugg]

Science research turns depend on several things. Each tech has a turn time. Some are 40 36 etc.It also depend s on how many civs have discover a tech already. If no none has discovered it it cost more. optonal techs(circle with slash) cost more.

 

[eyrei]

One of the best ways to acquire a tech in the ancient times is to flat out buy it from another civ. They usually don't even charge that much.

 

[eikoop]

I am trying to settle on an approach for the early game - main problem is science..

My thoughts for next game I play..
1. Search out other civs and Trade tech like crazy. Try to get more mobile unit than warrior.
2. Accumulate as much cash as possible - offer as a sweetener when trading tech - is this possible?
3. Find cities with high gold around them this increases commerce as well as science.
4. Build roads, adds more commerce.
5. Build granary, temple in that order to facilitate growth.
6. Watch science funding level in despotism.


With this in mind - I will start out as german - second easist level. Will have warrior code + something else. Need Cer Burial, Myticsm, Polytheism to get to Monarchy.

Am I forgetting anything?

 

[Bugg]

By the way the revolution period really sucks so get monarchy or republic dont try to get both. Two anarchy periods can kill you.
I dont research either one of these techs though. I just try to get to the Middle Ages as quick as possible my only exception is Literature for Great Library. I have found that Middle Age techs are more valuable than Ancient so you should be able to trade for it if you don't get the Great Library.
Also don't hoard techs unless all the civs aren't communicating with each other.

 

[eyrei]

Don't switch to monarchy too soon. I usually wait until I am a few techs into the middle ages, or at least until I am done expanding, and I have rush built a temple in every one of my cities to solidify my borders.

 

[eikoop]

So running on despotism until the Middle Ages will not hammer your growth/science to much. Better strategy is to go for Literature and Great Library as well as Military type advances? Let other civs research Monarchy/Republic advances and get via contact and or Great Library.

Do libraries do any good under Despotism? Still want to ramp up science. Have not tried trade system yet. Will that help commerce/science as well?

 

[Bugg]

Libraries help a little not alot. I mostly used them for the cultural border. By the way what civ are you playing the civ charcteristics really make a difference. i play Germany Sci/mil, so I use the libraries as my culture. I go for Iron, try to trade for Alphabet or masonry then go for writing, and literature.
Trading doesnt increase the rate, unless you are getting an amount per turn. For example if you give away iron for 5 gp per turn, then that might allow you to change your science by a 10 pct level.

 

[Gruntboy]

As a long time Civ1&2 player my major problem was adapting to the diplomacy screen.

Getting good deals from the other civs is a major method of progression. If you can trade that one tech advance for 4 or 5 others or the $$$ equivalent (thus allowing you to lower taxes and increase science) you will stay ahead in the science race.

I kept starting new games irritatingly often too till I figured out the expanded diplomacy means that communication pays.

Look around for some other good science strats. One guy suggested steaming for the great library and contact with all other civs then slashing science for tax. Interesting.

The only other thing I'd add is "build roads". This didn't take me long to learn since I was always a road/mobility freak in Civ2. But without extensive roads in civ3 you *will not* advance.

 

[eikoop]

Thanks Gruntboy.

You have me pegged. In CIV 2 I pretty used the science / military approach to win. It was not necessary to deal with other civs. Why should I?, I am going to take you over eventually or you will attack me behind my back.

In the new game other Civs, Barbarians will not leave you alone. If I had my way I would have my nice little continent all to myself. There I would build by mega cities, get my science and military going. Then I would force by wrath on all other Civs.

Well Civ3 does not let you do that.
Next time I play I will concentrate on communication/diplomacy/trade.

Thanks..

 

[Exile_Ian]

eikoop:

I went through a similar period of adjustment from Civ2 to Civ3, and most of what I'd suggest may have already been covered but anyway ...

If Science track is your choice - pick Germans (imo the Science/Millitary traits are key).

Forget about science early on (unless you can quickly get horses - which help in mobility).

Concentrate on building cities and expanding as much as possible (especially if playing on smaller maps or single continents).

From the very beginning, I usually start each new city building as follows WARRIOR - SPEARMAN -SETTLER. Then send the SPEARMAN and SETTLER off to build new city. (Then original city can continue with another SPEARMAN the on to improvements.

Don't let any city get above 6 pop to start with (either restrict the growth or create Workers who you can send off to start build road links/irrigation/mining).

Concentrate on expanding and if you meet other civs - trade techs with them (preferably without giving away all the key ones yourself). If you're already in contact with multiple civs, and you trade one of your civs to them - go and try and get some sort of deal from every other civ (if you don't, chances are the computer will trade your advance on, and then its worthless for trading).

I used to play at Emperor most of the time - but I'm sticking with Regent for now.

As regards to comparisons to CIV2, I think the significant thing is that CIV3 seems tougher near start of game - be prepared to lag behind for sometime, and be prepared to be humble. Ware against the computer oppononts when you are weak is a waste of time (and likely to be terminal!)

In my latest game (as Russians), I was last of 7 civs for ages - until I managed to develop Cossacks and could afford to be more aggressive.

 

[eikoop]

Thanks Exile,

Appreciate your input.

Just printed this thread. Will use as a crutch when I start a new game. Going to try for real at 2nd easiest level.

Eikoop

 

[Bob Hitchen]

Don't know what size map your playing on I've always picked huge which is crap for other reasons. Just build scouts at the beginning go everywhere every village I would be surprised if you haven't got all the ancient techs plus a pile of loot by 1300BC. Sometimes it even throws up a settler early which is a distinct advantage.
Only certain maps are worth playing just like civ2.