Civ 4, a failure made successful by money and absence of community

[Kissamies]

Yeah, K2 is a great game despite being rushed and having a horribly slashed ending. The biggest tragedy about it is that it would have been a truly exceptional game had Lucasarts given Obsidian proper time to finish it. Of course, I care more about the story than gameplay in these sort of games and those former Black Isle peole can sure spin a story. Newerwinter Nights 2 is bound to be good.

 

[Shigga]

I agree with #1 that the countless reviews doing nothing else than raigning praise on cIV are really annoying. Whatever happened to serious and honest reviewing? Nothing is ever only gold, everything has a little brass in it.

 

[warpstorm]

Most reviewers are member of a "cult" of PC Games insiders. They get invited to parties, amongst other fringe benefits (even if the pay is low).
One of the sacred principles of this "cult" is that anything associated with Sid Meier is god-like. To confer less than a score of 90% to a Sid Meier product is heresy : you don't get invited to parties anymore if you do.

I guess the parties were pretty dead after PTW came out then. Most every site gave it poor marks (it has a 63% average score on GameRankings).

 

[aquavit]

Great post, xguild.

 

[oldStatesman]

PC Gamer didn't tell us about the rediculous loads 3-4 times per level in Half-Life 2. I didn't renew my subscription...

So anyway, never trust any reviewer except for yourself. Try to play demos or let a friend buy the game first to see if you like it.

Well spoke.

 

[Yushal]

Often times when I create a post, I recieve a lot of well thought out posts that challenge the foundation of what I said initially. Often times even changing my own point of view or bringing to light sides of the issues that I hadn't thought off. For the most part however, in this particular case it seems not only was I 100% right, but every post up to this one has helped to make my point even stronger. Everything said so far lines up perfectly with exactly what I'm talking about and exactly why nothing in this industry will change, more importantly however will likely get worse.

Everything said here has been an excuse for the industry. It's hard to make games for all configurations.... It's impossible to test everything... It doesn't have that many bugs.... There aren't that many people with problems.... ..

Excuses, nothing more. Excuses coming from the consumer on the behalf of an industry who's standards have done nothing but declined since it's very begining. What's also sad to me is how short everyones memories are. Only one person on this forum remembers that when Civ 3 was released, right on the box it said "Multiplayer", but actually had none. Without a word in the expansion we got a multiplayer that didn't work at all and it wasn't until a 2nd expansion that we recieved a multiplayer component that functioned on some level. They sold us a game and two expansions and we swallowed it up like the hogs that we are.

I'm done making excuses for these companies and although I'm going to stand on this podium on my own, at least I'll know that I made my stand. The rest of you guys can continue to make excuses until one day, undoubtly very soon a game will be released that you have problems with and when you hit the forums to share your outrage you can look forward to a slew of flames and excuses on the behalf of the developers. Perhaps I'm becoming jaded, but I doubt you'll get any pitty from me.

I dont like insulting people, because I dont like being insulted myself, but more than that, because it is unproductive and generally detrimental to my postition and aims.

But you are a dumbass.

You post this whole diatribe on a fan forum, yet you feel the need to alienate the very people that you seem to be reaching out for support from. This is very stupid.

Moderator Action: Warned. You admit is is unproductive and detrimental, yet you do it anyway. :shakehead --Padma
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[xguild]

I dont like insulting people, because I dont like being insulted myself, but more than that, because it is unproductive and generally detrimental to my postition and aims.

But you are a dumbass.

You post this whole diatribe on a fan forum, yet you feel the need to alienate the very people that you seem to be reaching out for support from. This is very stupid.

Moderator Action: Warned. You admit is is unproductive and detrimental, yet you do it anyway. :shakehead --Padma
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Were exactly did I insult anyone? Calling me a dumba** is an insult, disagreeing with someone in a assertive manner is only an insult to people who can't take criticism like you. Perhaps instead of getting yourself in trouble by calling people names you should re-read my post and come up with an intelgent, thought out rebuttle that I can get my hands around. My opinions about Civilization 4 and the gaming industry in general weren't ment to bring out the trolls in people, but rather to trigger an intelgent conversation about the topic which up until your post was doing just fine.

Moderator Action: You don't need to add fuel to the fire. --Padma
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[Alan_Bernardo]

My collection edition copy works fine. My only complain is that my video card only has 64 Mb so the graphics are no so good. (but who plays civ for the graphics?) I just bought a ATI X800 All in wonder (256 MB) so i would be able to play with crispy graphics, though

I haven't read the first post. only the fourth one which says that the first post is rant.

It must be very fustrating to be a civ addict and not been able to play CIv IV because your system doesn't meet the specs or you are not spart enough to keep your system in good shape
Moderator Action: Trolling - warned. That's to go with your warning for the same thing yesterday.
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If you are not a civ addict, you always can store the game with the other bought but never played games or sell it on Ebay.

That's the whole thing about this. If a user has a problem with any game, that user thinks that the whole world is having a problem. The fact is, there are many, many more who are not having a problem compared to those who are having problems.

I like this version of Civ IV and think it is one fabulous game: I'd recommend it to anyone who is interested in a deeply-laden strategic game.

The fact that this game runs well for me and I've had minimal problems, the fact that I think Civ (and so do many others) is a very good game, does not make my some kind of syncophant.

As far as the reviews go, there's always going to be issues with these. If the game is getting good reviews and then someone buys the game based on those reviews and it turns out not so good, then of course the person is going to have some gripes and begin to believe that this whole thing is some sort of giant, capitalistic conspiracy.

But it is just not good reasoning to then assume that this is actually happening just because the game is not working for a group of people, when in reality many are having no problems.

Reviews are reviews, and I tend not to read them. Generally, though, when you get a slew of good reviews about a game (though some have a particular bias) the game must have some good points.

Civ IV is a great game. There is no conspiracy. Reviewers are of course looking for advertising dollars, but they are not about to risk more advertising dollars in the future by raving about a game that is not deserving of acclaim.

So it goes: now, back to more Civ IV.


Alanb

 

[MrCynical]

It is quite true that in an ideal world when you pay for something you should get exactly what you wanted and it should work perfectly. In practice this doesn't happen, so what is the appropriate thing to do with non functional goods? Simple, return them and get your money back. (I admit some people may not be able to return their game for various reasons, and thus are far more entitled to be annoyed, but I doubt it can be that large a percentage).

I've been stunned at the number of people who claim to have purchased large numbers of games, all of which apparently worked perfectly, since this bears no resemblance to my experiences. I'd say at least 1 in 4 games I've played had bugs on the level some people have described for Civ 4. I have had no major problems running the game, and before anyone dismisses this as another "I'm fine so that's all that matters" post, I do sympathize with those currently unable to get the game to work. I have had similar problems with other games, but my approach was always that I would return them if they would not work to any useful extent unless it was a game I really wanted, in which case it would gather dust on a shelf until either a patch or hardware upgrade made it worth trying again.

Is Civ 4 a failure? No, many people can play the game with no problem at all, and Firaxis are working on a patch to help those that can't. Firaxis has generally been good about patching their games until they reach a satisfactory condition, and I hope this trend continues here. This is probably the appropriate point to say that I am not a fanboy blindly defending Firaxis and all their products. I was furious at the appalling Play the World expansion, which was little more than a horrendously buggy alpha version of Conquests, and would have advised anyone to avoid it completely. Yes, Civ 4 was rushed out in a rather dubious condition, though I suspect people would have complained just as much if it was delayed a month.

Although I do not consider Civ 4 a failure, let us move on to the reasons you think it has become successful; money and absence of community. Let's start with money. You state that game reviews are basically for sale, and that is sadly to some extent true. However even the most obscure reviewers have awarded Civ 4 a very good review and I have to doubt whether they all have a vested interest in doing so. I'd never even heard of some of these review sites until the links started turning up here. Contrary to what some people have said some of the reviews do mention the technical problems, but list them as what they are; happening to a fairly small group of people and largely to specific graphics cards. Firaxis is doing what they can to sort this out with a patch. What would you like them to do about it? They cannot travel back in time and alter the software on the disk they sold you. Always remember you have the right to your money back, you can simply return the game and forget about it.

Now lets move on to absence of community. A quick glance at my profile will show that I am new here, and let me tell you that I have found this to be quite a friendly and helpful community. There wouldn't be any of the work-arounds you seem so scathing of but for the community, and I believe some people have found them helpful. Again I ask what you would like us to do? Storm Firaxis' offices and scream your complaints to them? That isn't going to get a patch out any faster. Tell them what needs fixing? This has already been done a hundred times over by the members of the community you seem to find so lacking and the patch notes suggest they have listened. March through the streets with a placard and megaphone shouting Civ 4's failure to the world? I at least cannot do this for the simple reason I do not consider it a failure. If anyone asks me I will state the simple facts that I have found it to be an excellent game which has run almost flawlessly for me. I will include that some people have technical problems, and explain the nature of them, but I will not label Civ 4 a failure because of them.

 

[neriana]

Well said, MrCynical. And not cynical at all .

 

[Sorceresss]

THxxx Alan_Bernardo & MrCynical : you are keeping this thread alive with long, intelligent posts.

 

[TheBaumer]

Mr Cyncial hits the nail on the head - games never come out w/o glitches - it's the nature of software development.

 

[Legionarius]

The game isn't a failure, it was just rushed. You can't really expect perfection on the initial release, which is a fact most people should recognize instead of complaining. Rushed games will always have problems. Hell, AOE III had numerous problems and required a quick patch. If the game isn't better with the new patch, then people have the right to complain about something. However, until that patch comes, people need to realize that problems were bound to happen.

 

[EdCase]

I too, as a longtime player of "video" games, would like to see this mythical list of PC games that run perfectly out of the box.
This is not to say that Civ IV is in anyway shape or form the "best" release I have ever encountered...but it is far from the worst.

I am sure many here recall messing with their 286/386 config files to free up the last little bit of memory to run games that stated their requirements and yet took some hardware/software " bashing" to run.

Civ IV is merely the latest in a long line of products rushed out of the door by publishers to make a fast buck.
Firaxis have historically supported their products and , despite being purchased by 2K, imho will continue to do so.
It hurts to be in the percentage of people who cannot get the game to function. I have been there at other times.
The thing is ...IF Civ IV truely is a failure then support will not materialize.Do you honestly see this happening?

Final note ...if you really want (I've said this before and will undoubtly say it again) to see a developer who produces garbage he believes is gold.....

Look up Derek Smart..the premier coder/developer who can take a golden idea and turn it into a lead balloon. He has done so consistently for many a year now...
The people lovingly referred to as "fanboys" on these forums are nothing in comparison to the rabid dogs on the BC forum..The worst of which is Mr Smart himself.

 

[Green_Power]

I've read all the posts on this thread and many dozens more on this forum. I reach the conclusion that many people is playing this game with no complaints what so ever what is odd to say the least, don't get me wrong but I think many ppl is lying and presently in denial. Just admit the game is slow for god sake, don't be shy

I have an AMD 2.0 GHz CPU, 1.3GB DDR 400Mhz RAM and an ATI 9600 265MB Pro video card (that I consider still very good from other games experience). I don't like playing standard / small maps only Large and bigger and I must say that in spite 50% of the game runs smooth (without anti-alising on of course) the rest of the game is pure slow <deleted> (crap). I'm surprised that anyone has the pacience to take 1-2secs lags when assigning units or to just see the scroll pad like crazy. My PC has a solid OS installation, hardware is way above requirements. Don't get me with you-have-noncompatible-hardware stuff like that, we don't need to have super-nift machines..
I would like to see a post in this thread coming from a civ4 veteran (not from a newbie guy) using a middle-end PC that has actually ended the game on large, or superior, without witnessing graphic slowdows using 1280x1024. That will be the day! If you can, please sir I want to shake your hand and buy your PC.

I love civ since the beginning, alpha-centauri rocked, CivIII (after some patchs --- for ADDITIONS, not hardware fixes) was probably the best strategy game to date but i'm beginning to get sick with this 3D revolution rubbish that I think has destroyed our beloved CIV

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[TheBaumer]

Slow? The game is slow?

I have played Civ since it's first release - so I know what slow is. I know what waiting minutes on a huge map is like. I can't believe how much faster Civ IV is than any in the series before. Games are now finishing in hours or days instead of days or weeks. This game is NOT slow - not for me at least.

If people think so bugs or isolated tech issues make this game a failure - then by those standards Civ I, II, and III were failures also. I don't think that to be the case.

This game is getting great reviews and deservedly so - no it is not Civ III, it is not just a big expansion pack - it is a NEW game and I am loving it so far.

 

[Sorceresss]

I've read all the posts on this thread and many dozens more on this forum. I reach the conclusion that many people is playing this game with no complaints what so ever what is odd to say the least, don't get me wrong but I think many ppl is lying and presently in denial.

Thanks for your thoughtful, very first post on this Forum...where you have called me (and many others) : LIAR(S).

We all hope to read more of your charming, insightful posts.

 

[laylowmay]

xguild, excellent post. I completely agree with you.
But I have to agree with one of the fanboys that you posted on the wrong forum...
I feel bad for you getting attacked by these immature gamers.

 

[Green_Power]

You know what I mean with Slow (slugginesh and lag). Not the "end turn", oh noo that is great! I do not take more than 4-8 secs max to end each turn, thank god Firaxis for dealing with that issue (who played huge CivIII games knows what i'm talking about). What is slow is gameplay. If you can take that late-game slugginesh well than you are with luck, you are a very pacient dude

I will be waiting patiently for the Civ4 veteran post regarding flawless gameplay speed and really eager to check it's specs.

 

[Green_Power]

I apologize to anyone that felt offended with my very first post it was not really my itention. It's just very frustrating to not know what a <deleted> is going on with many of us, assuming that really there are ppl running crap machines and zooming-in and out flawlessly and not witnessing lag in the game AT ALL, it just doesn't make sense. It's almost like there are two releases of the game or something. I've even read somewhere some one saying that Civ4 beta version runned better than the released version

Moderator Action: Again, watch the language. --Padma
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