Civ II vs. Civ III?

[LionQ]

... You will also take a Rep hit for declaring war for any reason with at least one unit in the victim's territory. ...

This is new to me. When war becomes an option [ for several reasons ], I always say: "Strike first, and strike hard.". In order to do this, I always place my offending Units already in what will become enemy territory [ the AI then wished it never signed that RoP. ], and then declare war. Should I do this differently next time?

 

[punkbass2000]

It depends. If you don't care about your Reputation, it will a be very effective manoeuvre that will work exactly once per game (unless the civ you do it to has no contact with other civs.) If you do care, then never do this. If you always have units in their territory when you make your DoW, that would explain why you think declaring war "unprovoked" carries a huge Rep hit. Once you do this, even without a RoP in place, no civ that knows about it will ever sign an RoP with you, except possibly in a very one-sided peace-negotiation. This whole feature is actually something markedly different from previous civ games and is a move for the better, IMO. I recall thinking myself rather clever making peace for everything a civ had and then taking their cities immediately with no real penalties in Civ1. Civ2 was annoying because, as you said, DoW's were generally rep hits regardless of situation (not unlike trade deals now). IMO, you should be able to make a DoW without penalty if it's done "honourably".

 

[The Last Conformist]

DoWs where automatic rep hits in CivII? I guess I never noticed, because on the higher levels it was always the AI declaring war one me (usually to my malevolent glee).

 

[EquinoxOmega]

I've CIVIII(normal no expansion) and CIVII Fantastic Worlds.

Because I love scenarios I prefere CIVII.

There a some good improvments in CIVIII like the new resources-concept, the negotiation-mode and the territory-borders, but in CIVIII the production is very weak(except you build lots of improvements). Furthermore in CIVII is more costumized than CIVIII(my version of it). Despite I like complex games CIVIII is too excat(in several aspects) and in others it's unrealistic.

 

[punkbass2000]

DoWs where automatic rep hits in CivII? I guess I never noticed, because on the higher levels it was always the AI declaring war one me (usually to my malevolent glee).

IIRC, yes, they were. I haven't played in at least five years, but I think it would take you from, say, 'Spotless' to 'Excellent'. It wasn't the big deal that it is in Civ3 (where your Rep seems to be primarily a binary function), but I think this (the Civ3) is better, at least from a gameplay stand point.

 

[Chinghis]

maybe i'm too late (the original poster may have bought civ3 already), but i'd like to summarize a few points about the two games:

- both have the same addictive qualities

- civ3 has borders

- civ2's zone of control and unit hitpoints are gone. {snip}

- now civs have different traits, and this was a good addition to the game {snip}

- strategic resources are one of the best features added to civ3. {snip}

- now certain city improvements and wonders generate culture, and this creates another victory condition in the game - the one with the most culture wins.

- civ3 AI is superior to the one in civ2, {snip}

- diplomacy options were expanded and diplomatic negotiations are now even more important than before. {snip}

- in civ3 your units are not supported by individual cities, but by your budget. this makes it easier to maintain a large army.

- when civ3 was first released, it had a very disappointing and limited editor, but the expansion packs and numerous patches improved this situation and now you have good scenario capabilities.

- no wonder movies in civ3

of course, there are other differences between both games, but i think these ones i cited can give you a good overview of how civ3 compares to civ2.

sorry for the long post.

No problem, thanks for your synopsis. Sounds like a much different beast than Civ 2... and as I say, I'm still having trouble with Deity level as it is. A harder AI may be more frustrating, but more fun. Maybe I'll wait until I win a Deity level game before moving on to Civ 3.

(Yeah, I'm not sure about the legality of the DOS games downloads, either. I do sometimes see it in bargain bins, too.)

 

[Alexnm]

Actually, a Deity win in Civ2 will not get you more prepared to face Civ3 AI... I'd say go for it, play Civ3 in a lower difficulty level (such as Warlord) to get used to the new concepts and the AI.

 

[Chinghis]

Actually, a Deity win in Civ2 will not get you more prepared to face Civ3 AI... I'd say go for it, play Civ3 in a lower difficulty level (such as Warlord) to get used to the new concepts and the AI.

Heh, I agree - I just want to win a Deity level game in Civ 2 as sort of a personal goal, before moving on and getting addicted to a new game. After reading these forums, I'm actually doing very well in my latest game. There's hope.

 

[Souron]

I found Civ III to be a lot better than Civ II.

For example, I never had one more turm sindrome when playing civ II.

Can't say why really, it's just a much better game.

 

[LionQ]

Civ III is just better, Souron. Micromanagement is still a time consuming job in III, but it was a lot heavier in II.