Civ Leaders

[ApocalypseKurtz]

I miss the old days of having 1 male and 1 female leader per nationality. Some of the leader choices are just ridiculous for Civ3 (Catherine over Stalin/Lenin?) With 2 choices per civ we would have an alternate in case we didn't like one of them. (Louis XIV, Rameses, Stalin, etc.)

 

[SkidiWili]

Others:

Cleopatra for Egypt, yes she was a famous, but she really didn't rule Egypt
Joan de Arc, uh, did she ever rule France?

But then again finding female rules for some civs is hard. Aztec, Iroques, Zulu, Japan, China, America(no presidental wives)... mention a female leader from these countries...

 

[Tariq]

Why couldn't they just do like they did in Civ II and include a male and a female leader for each Civ? I guess they figured it wasn't necessary and would take up space. Still, they should have put something in so that you could change the sex of the ruler that you are using. I don't care to much for being called "Madame."

 

[willemvanoranje]

I do, only not in Civilization.

 

[OCStiggs]

At the start of the game, you can edit your name, country, etc. So if you don't like being called Madame, you can change it to Trollop or Slavemaster or whatever. The only problem is: you can't change the picture....

 

[ApocalypseKurtz]

OCStiggs - How do you change the gender? I didn't think you could, either...

Skidiwilli - Joan never officialy ruled but I think she is a good choice; she is probably one of the most famous French people in history.

 

[OCStiggs]

At the start, when you pick which civ you want to be, click under the picture of the leader. It'll let you change the name (i.e., Lincoln), country (America), adjective (American), and title (President). I guess that really doesn't change the gender as far as the AI is concerned, and as I said, you can't change the picture. But I'm sure someone out there will hack that one out.

 

[jc011]

I think King Louis XIV would've been a good choice for French...and why Abe for Americans??

 

[Anielewicz]

Hey Abe's pretty good, he lost half of his country due to his economic policy toward Europe and got killed.

 

[Kiki]

Maybe because Abe is one of the most famous presidents. Because of Black slaves and stuff.

I could have also seen George Washington as a leader for the Americans, but I'd think he'd rather be a military/build wonder leader than the president since I think he did command an army.

Also, Joan of Arc doesn't look pretty in the game. She died when she was 19, she looks like umm.... older than that. I wish she was more better looking, she should look like Leelee Sobieski the actress who played Joan of Arc on TV and maybe blond hair (did she have blond hair in real life?) I heard once in an interview with Leelee that many people say she DOES have a close resemblence to Joan of Arc in real life but Leelee said she wasn't religious but maybe even possibly atheist. Also, I REALLY dislike how Joan looks in the modern day she looks very ugly. I don't like it when girls get skin heads, it's like their neo-Nazis or something and that would anger a French person who fought Nazi Germany in the past.

Also, I heard that the Russian leader looked very nice when she was young but in the game she is old. I wonder, why couldn't they have put the young Russian leader? Did she do the most historically known things when she was old?

I think Civ does have a good balance between how they chose male and female. For some civs a female is not a possibility for them.

 

[Anielewicz]

Too bad Abe was a big-government draconian. The whole issue of slavery was a back-burner compared to the actual issues at hand with the Feds and Confederacy. Its funny how Abe emancipated only the South, and forgot about the one's that didn't secede and still had slaves.

Good ole honest Abe.

And don't be brain-washed by CBS movies, Joan of Arc had probably an XY chromosome, thus notice the masculine traits, eh? She probably looked like a man... Ah, but Leelee is fine with me

 

[Exile_Ian]

I too wish there was the option of m/f leaders - it would give the opportunity to introduce a few that seem obviously overlooked:

English : Winston Churchill, Oliver Cromwell, Richard the Lionheart

Germans: Adolf Hitler (!)

Russians: Stalin, Lenin

Americans: J F K, George Washington, F D R

France: Napoleon (!)

Egypt: Rameses, Ptolomy, Tutenkamun

I'm currently working on some FLCs to try and get an animated Churchill - but don't hold your breath!

 

[Marla_Singer]

Hey ! don't compare Napoleon and Hitler ! they aren't at all the same!

Seriously, I just remember you that Napoleon has declared war to nobody !! Actually, almost every european Empires were allied against France when they were still in the mess caused by their revolution. England see the weakened France of that time (France was most in anarchy then in republic after the revolution) as a great opportunity to invade finally that country (it looks like the final dream of a whole people looking to history).
The only bug was that actually the amazing opposite happened: when austrians, spaniards and brits were discussing about how they would split France between each others, Napoleon took the power in France. You know the result, France hasn't been invaded and all other empires (except England of course) have been invaded.

Well, I'm not saying that Napoleon was an angel, he was of course an awful warmonger, but he doesn't deserve to be compared with Hitler. Hitler has declared war to the world, Hitler has decided the destruction of a people, and you know everything else.

I know most people in here are anglo-saxon and their fear of Napoleon goes through generations, but please, don't put a "!" on his name as if he was Hitler.

If I want to do a little irony, I would say Napoleon is the only french leader who wanted to invade England, when almost every english leaders 'till Loyd George has ever dreamed of the union jack flying over Paris.

 

[Exile_Ian]

Well 'tis true that most English (even exiled ones like me) have no reason to like the French, but that wasn't what I meant to imply with the ! against Napoleon. I actually added the exclamation marks because they were the more obvious leaders to have been included in the original game. Let's face it - ask anyone for a famous leader of Germany and France - Bismark and Joan d'Arc aren't likely to be the replies.

Personally though, the Anglo/French dislike goes pretty deep and is very much two-way. Suprisingly, the Brits still probably have a more favorable relationship with Germany than with France (true even today in the EU). C'est la vit!

I'm hoping someone will actually come up with a set of leaders that are more oriented towards the 20th century - but that's just my preference.

 

[cephyn]

Bismark is perfect choice for Germany. His alliance system was excellent until Kaiser Wilhelm II fired him. Bismark was the true leader prior to WW1.

As for France, JoA is silly. If we're not going to pick Louis XIV (as someone else suggested) then for god's sakes pick Mitterand or De Gaulle or (my personal favorite) Cardinal Richelieu.

Americans, Abe isn't a bad choice. Unorthodox choices would be people like Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, Wilson or FDR.

For the Brits, if you want unorthodox, think Oliver Cromwell
Otherwise, i approve of Elizabeth I.

 

[Hamlet]

Cromwell should have definetley have either been a great leader or a ruler choice. When you look at his accomplishments over the time of his reign, they're quite astonishing. Far better than Henry VIII, who I think was he choice in Civ 2.

Also, you could have possibly had Charlamange for the French (Okay, so he wasn't strictly French), Napoleon or Louis XIV etc, although I think JoA is quite a good choice for the French. Although she was never ruler or anything, I personally can't think of anyone better for the female choice, although I'm open to suggestions.

Also, Lenin would be my choice for male leader of The Russians. I certainly wouldn't include Stalin- Probably one of the worst dictators in human history. If you include him, then you may as well go the full way and shove in Hitler for the Germans.

Mao is also probably a dubious choice for the chinese, although I suppose he is the most historically visable Chinese leader to most people.

 

[lowinor]

Heh. Bismarck would definitely be my pick for German leader. What was it in Civ 1... Fredreich II? Definitely a pivotal German leader, but a big "huh" to most of the American audience.

The irony to me of Civ leader choices is Alexander for the Greeks. Sure, he's probably the most historical pre-eminent Greek leader, but if you want Alexander as the leader, they should be militaristic/expansionist. Pericles should be the scientific/commercial Greek leader

For Chinese, I'd rather see Ts'ao Ts'ao (if someone is more familiar with the current preferred English spelling, please let me know) than Mao, although I seem to be in a small minority of those who'd recognize the name.

I'd prefer Jefferson for the American leader, really. Otherwise I can't really complain about leader selection. More options would be nice, though.

 

[mcnuth03]

What does Jefferson have to offer for the American leader? He was one of the better presidents the US has had, but why him over Lincoln (or Washington or FDR)?

 

[Kevin]

@ exile_ian

u aren´t imaging in how much trubble u will get here in germany when u include hitler as german leader. thats the biggest possible fault u could do here. bismark or kaiser wilhelm der große is a good choice.
i also dislike to be called madam and prefer a choice of two leaders.

 

[cephyn]

Originally posted by Kevin
@ exile_ian

u aren´t imaging in how much trubble u will get here in germany when u include hitler as german leader. thats the biggest possible fault u could do here. bismark or kaiser wilhelm der große is a good choice.
i also dislike to be called madam and prefer a choice of two leaders.

I object to Hitler as a choice anyway. Sure, he revived the country after WW1, reinstating it as a world power, then destroyed it all over again.

This is not to say that other choices for some of hte civs make sense, just that Hitler as a choice is bad for millions of reasons including the ones mentioned above.