Civ V = Builder vs. Civ IV = Warrior

Is there a correlation between Civ V satisfaction and the type of Civ player?

  • Builder - Civ V's a step forward

    Votes: 65 21.7%
  • Warrior - Civ V's a step forward

    Votes: 57 19.1%
  • Builder - Civ V's a step backwards

    Votes: 150 50.2%
  • Warrior - Civ V's a step backwards

    Votes: 27 9.0%

  • Total voters
    299
In theory, civ 5 building is meant to be more strategic, because of long build times and high maintenance costs you have to choose what you build. In practice, depending on the type of win you're going for, there is a very obvious build order. In civ iv there were important stategic decisions to make on which national wonders to build where, this had a huge impact on the game. In civ 5 the only such decision is maybe national college. So there is very little thinking involved in civ 5 building.
In civ iv I was a really bad warmonger, I avoided war at all costs unless I had overwhelming military superiority, which was rare. In civ 5 waging war on the AI is so easy it feels like cheating on my part. I would have thought that dedicated warmongers would find civ 5 too boring.
 
exactly. i am more of a war monger myself and i definitely think civ V is a step backwards. i was suprised that so many war mongers like it. its just too easy.
 
exactly. i am more of a war monger myself and i definitely think civ V is a step backwards. i was suprised that so many war mongers like it. its just too easy.

Wait until the combat AI has got some improvements (which I doubt we will ever see, but that's a different story).
As soon as you cannot just slash a complete empire with 6 units anymore, even the "warmongers" will turn sides.

The overwhelming applause for Civ0.V which we see from the warmongers is mainly based on the fact that they can be successful without effort.
That gives them a feeling of being skilled and a good general. Therefore, they like it.
 
of course. with some improvement to the combat AI, or some tweaks like increasing city defenses, removing the insta-heal promotion etc. to make it a little more challenging and the game would be fun. But dont forget that they also need to change the AI's attitude / diplomacy aspect. Right now the AI always seems to prefer war and the player needs to work actively to avoid this, of course the easier option is to just prepare for total war.

Anyways my comments above were based on the present condition of the game.
 
I was a builder kind of person in Civ4. The warmongering was just not any fun. Mostly about having a nice military tech lead and industrial capacity.

Civ5 made me like to do warfare. I even favor the Japanese, even if I'm not planning on great conquests - it is just a fun aspect to have a hardcore military force.

The builder part has a bit less flavor in Civ5, with far less things to build and some buildings being of questionable value due to the large investment they demand in terms of time and upkeep costs, yet provide sometimes small bonuses. On the other hand the whole thing is so much less overwhelming that I like this more anyway.

The AI is so bad at warfare and there are balance issues. If this is dealt with I will enjoy Civ5 far more than I did Civ4.
 
Out of like a hundred games of Civ IV, only a handful would probably have been conquest-style ones. And I only remember finishing a couple of those.

In Civ V though, the whole building thing is so incredibly boring and the warfare so much better to manage, I play every game as a warmonger.

This.

With the WB release, I do what I've always done -- created myself a few custom maps tailor-made to a nesting style of play... Limited egress via small passes through mountains, chokepoints I can defend, and lush, resource filled terrain to support a smaller, building and development focused empire. I toss some additional bonuses and units at the AI and give it a whirl.

There's just a lot less to do.

I loaded up one of my similar maps in IV to run through a quick comparison (played through about 150 turns in each) -- and the ratio of 'Next Turns with nothing to do' was almost 3 times higher in V. I can certainly accept that some of the things that 'filled' turns in IV others found boring, but I guess for me, they were the essence of my playstyle:

1) cottages were a biggie, as were the additional resources (though, this isn't entirely fair as my IV map pulled in even more resources from AND)

2) Religion, obviously - as per usual, two spiritual civs popped Hinduism and Buddhism... each of which spread to single cities -- and I then popped Judaism... which made for some interesting turns as I tried to figure out which to spread... Ultimately, I selected Buddhism because it was in my prime wonder city AND Izzy was the founder and I wanted to stay on her good side for the time being...

3) My building count in IV vs. V was out of control -- even with 3 wonders built in IV (vs. 2 in V -- I lost 2 others to the AI) -- I had 18 buildings (over 5 cities) in IV vs. just 3 buildings (also over 5 cities) in V. A big part of this was, of course, wonder chasing -- but chopping hammers (lower in V) and production costs was another biggie.

4) Scientific pathing in IV vs. V -- even though I've played 1000s of hours in IV, I found I didn't really have a set path... I initially started towards Hinduism to try to pop an early religion (random AI opponents - didn't know at the beginning I had a spiritual opponent in the game), but then deviated. In V - beelined calendar and writing.

5) worker stacking - something few have mentioned, but it's a big difference. Had marble near a city in V, stone and marble near cities in the IV game... I very much like more the fact that in IV, I sent all my workers to hurry the quarries in IV (to get the wonder bonuses), while in V -- all I could do is wait for the one worker to finish. This dominoes exponentially -- it's a big reason I had so many more buildings in IV.

6) One thing I'll give to V -- I'm perhaps the only person in the Civ world who virtually NEVER adopts slavery in IV.... it's not a moral thing -- it's just that a) I hate wasting turns on anarchy, and b) due to a, by the time I get my first GA or my civ is up and arms DEMANDING a more efficient government, I have other options available. I prefer chopping to whipping --- in V, I bought 2 of my 4 post-capital cities (i.e., settler buys). Had to chop/build 'em in IV.

7) I like GPs more in IV -- got one in each -- in V, it was pretty much a no brainer to pop a tech (great scientist)... I had designs on later building Chichen Itza and didn't want to burn another GA until I got the 50% bonus. In IV - I actually got a Great Spy -- who was settled in the city with the Great Wall (my capital). This almost immediately gave me good intelligence on what the AI was researching.

8) I did get a GA in V -- and the one nice thing I'll say about global happiness is getting more GAs is probably worth keeping... I'd still like to see happiness returned to the city level, but wouldn't mind keeping a "global bar", where excess per city still fed a global progress bar. In IV -- I was pretty much waiting for a GP I could spend.
 
Wait until the combat AI has got some improvements (which I doubt we will ever see, but that's a different story).
As soon as you cannot just slash a complete empire with 6 units anymore, even the "warmongers" will turn sides.

The overwhelming applause for Civ0.V which we see from the warmongers is mainly based on the fact that they can be successful without effort.
That gives them a feeling of being skilled and a good general. Therefore, they like it.

Yes and no, I think -- I'm not a warmonger by any stretch, so I certainly cannot speak for that style of play.... but I would think the warmonger is less thinking "I can win on deity, I'm brilliant" -- and more thinking "OK - if they can fix the AI, this will be a huge step forward".

Now - I'm of the same mind on the AI... Fixing an AI that has to work strategically is very, very tough to do -- in IV/pre-IV -- you could always just brute force more challenge into the AI (i.e., ever more bonuses to ever bigger stacks). That's not an option here -- with 1UpT there is just no way to "bonus" the AI to a challenging level (well, beyond giving it outrageous combat bonuses... which I'm assuming NO ONE wants) -- it's got to "think" its way to being challenging.
 
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