Civ3 Conquests First Patch Thread

The only thing I ask for is Auto-Recon.
 
My top 10

1) Autorecon here too.
2) 3rd party peace bargaining.
3) Pollution decrease. (way too high)
4) New spy mission:
"Sow suspision"
Change a civs opinion for another by one place.
Polite-cautious-annoyed-furious.
5) Tolls for trade route use by other civs.
Instead of saying "get out or declare war"
there should be an "offer toll" option.
You can negotiate it just like resources and it only applies to those units for X amount of time.
China, you wanna send those 4 infantry to your city in the middle of my lands? that will be 40 gold for 10 turns of travel.
6) Airlift armies.
7) Some sort of protection VRS uninvited recons and helecopter drops. For now I always tag helecopters as no nationality.
8) Make cruise missiles usable from ships.
9) Give units that have created a leader an extra level beyond elite.
10) Add more disaster types. I'd love to see a hurricane.


Some are wish list items I know, but I gotta ask.
 
Oh, and I almost forgot.
Army units for sea and air units.
Sometimes the sea/air is as packed with units as the land.
An elite plane or ship should be able to generate a a "famous Ship" type.
 
Originally posted by Balastulin
An idea for a patch:

Now that we have a swanky new Diplomacy screen, how about the screen displays what technologies the Civilisation has to offer as opposed to having to go back every five turns to check, then saying "Sorry, doesn't matter".

Also, if the computer already knows what is or is not going to be acceptable, why can't we just have an "ask Trade Advisor" button instead of having to put in fifteen amounts of gold until we get the right one.

These are relatively easy changes to implement and in my view would make Diplomacy a lot more fun, as it can have a tendency to be somewhat tedious, with excessive repetition.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Good idea, but you should also be able to what luxeries/strategic resources people have.

playshogi: What about before the modern age?

Psychlone: Pollution should be toggleable in either the editor or the prefs screen.

SpincruS: Disasters should be whichever way they put pollution.

MaximusParthas: The toll is sorta like an ROP, what I would really like to see on this subject is a one-sided ROP, ie, Hittite tanks can go into tiny Greece, but the Greeks can't go into the Hittite territory, because whenever I get an ROP I always get a bad deal (ie, I give gold, map, resource, ROP, for just an ROP). Also, there is a "Gracious" mood. My major change request on this subject:
Set your opinion of a civ (annoyed, furious, etc.).
 
Originally posted by Slax
I don't think half of you know what is usually included in a patch.
Click to expand...

:lol: So true. We should be discussing BUG fixes, not pie-in-the-sky wish lists.

Game breaking bugs (IMO) :

1. GPT added twice in deals with other Civs.
2. Corruption not calculating properly due to "fix" for RCP.
3. AI worker routines - they are building WAY too much irrigation in Despotism.
4. AI ships running into subs causes Declaration of War.
 
Not sure if this is a bug or what is going on... when I look at my diplomacy/espionage screen (the new C3C screen that overall is a good idea), I click on the AI civs and the cities listed are often innaccurate. For example, the Egyptians had 6 cities but when I clicked on their bar on the left, it only showed one - and it was mine! :confused:

It seems also, that the number of cities shown varies. At one time the Arabians had 6 listed, then a few turns later it jumped to something like 14. They didn't expand that fast....

It's making my 1-turn attempts to obliterate AI civ's a lot more tricky .. now that the poor souls won't offer peace until a substantial passage of turns or you wipe them out 100% (including roaming spearmen/settlers/caravels).

(And that is a topic for another thread... why on earth would a civ with a single 1-HP spearman and settler NOT offer peace when they are roaming through my 200+ city territory *surrounded* by Med/Cavalry... ??? What do they have to lose - if they offer peace they MAY just - heheh - have a chance to live a few more turns and settle a new city, if not it's a safe bet read: lock they'll be exterminated on the next turn. just curious)
 
a choice for city styles as a file you pick in pedia icons or in the editor, you can keep 5 culture groups, I just want unique cities.

Can they add an effect similar to cause craters to cause pollution (1 square also) it would make chemical weapons do-able. (instead of modding crater graphics to pollution in order to have them :( )
 
From a list we have been compiling over at Apolyton:


URGENT KILLER-BUG FIXES (EVEN IF NOT SO EASY TO FIX):
  • The Forbidden Palace increases corruption
  • Per-turn income from other civs is counted twice
  • The Secret Police works even for non-communist governments. You have to be in Communism to build it, but after you have built it and switch governments, you have a second FP.
  • Fix RCP by averaging (or tie-breaking) ranks instead of taking the worst rank in a ring. The current anti-RCP solution hurts the AI and promotes city placement which is as unnatural as RCP.

GAME MECHANICS ISSUES
  • Captured non-worker units (artillery, scouts) should require mainenance. Not a big issue in SP, but it's a possible exploit in MP.
  • Disable city-view arrow buttons in production phase. Because commerce is calculated before food/production, these arrows allow you maximize both commerce and food/shields in all cities that come after your first completed build of the turn. These arrows also allow more than one city to possibly use your best tiles during the same turn.
  • Make all ground bombard units airliftable. Or please once-and-for-all explain to us the reasoning behind them not having this ability. Please also consider the same for Settlers and Workers.

GAME BALANCE ISSUES
  • Remove the better sinking odds for the Seafaring trait. The AI does not take advantage it, and the seafaring trait is powerful enough even without it. The +1 ship movement already provides improved odds against sinking.
  • Triple the bombard defense of Coastal Fortress. Ironclads will then have a 20% chance of destroying this improvement, which they must do before they can harm any units in the city. Currently the beefed up ironclads destroy fortresses 43% of the time, rendering the city improvement basically useless, as it is better to let the AI bombard your units (which heal), than to build a fortress to be destroyed so easily.
  • Reduce the shield cost for the Colosseum. It is too expensive for an ancient build, and it's less cost-effective than Catherdals, even for non-religious civs. Even with the luxury scarcity in C3C, Colosseums are probably currently the least-built improvement along with coastal fortresses.
  • The Javelin Thrower is too powerful when used as a barb-farming unit. Combining free workers with the industrious/agricultural traits, the Mayans have an unbelievable early-game advantage without even having to waste their Golden Age. Potential fixes: a) The Javelin Thrower should capture Warriors instead of Workers, b) Barbarian units should not be able to be enslaved, or c) they should have a reduced chance of being enslaved.
  • Remove ability from Curragh to enter ocean. Suicide runs by the human player make early exploration of the map too easy.
  • Add amphibious attack to an early unit for all civs. Medieval Infantry, for example, after increasing its cost to 50. This would add a new element of strategy, currently present in the middle ages only with the Vikings, and it would benefit the AI more than the human, who more often tends to leave coastal cities undefended.
  • Reduce free unit support for Republic, especially for cities (size 7-12). With a large number of captured workers and an empire consisting mostly of cities, the increased unit support cost for this government is more than offset by the increased free unit support. This makes the government even more suited for industrial or modern age warmongering than before, and Democracy even less desirable.

AI BEHAVIOR ISSUES
  • AI rule: use naval bombardment against cities only if you also have land or amphibious units able to attack the city in the same turn. The new targeting priorities, along with the AI's new tendency to bombard cities instead of tile improvements without following up with an invasion, make the AI navy less of a threat.
  • AI rule: do not bombard units that cannot be damaged. The AI currently targets lone workers and artillery in otherwise unimportant tiles, even though they cannot be harmed by bombardment.
  • Remove the ability from the Celts to build Medieval Infantry. This prevents the AI from upgrading the Gallic Swordsman, which is usually a superior unit due to its retreat ability.
  • Remove the AI offense flag from Musketeer. This unit now has the same attack strength as the Musketman, which has only the defense flag checked.
  • Remove AI offense flag from Mech. Infantry, Impi, and possibly Numidian Mercenary. Similar to the Musketeer, this change prevents the AI from attacking with these units, which are too expensive for their attack rating. Each unit can have only one AI strategy, so Carthage and Zulu build their defensive UU for part of their offense. Infantry built for attack is converted to a defensive role when upgraded. This makes the AI have to build new offensive units, and Tanks are always available whenever Mech. Infantry is.
  • Remove the AI deffense flag from Javelin Thrower. Otherwise the AI builds some of these expensive units instead of spearmen. When time comes to upgrade to longbowmen, the AI actually loses defensive strength on a unit it built for defense. Note that the Babylonian Bowman has identical A/D/M to the Javelin Thrower, but is not flagged for defense.
  • AI rule: Don't accept peace with a civ that has a MPP with another enemy civ. Makes for more intelligent AI behavior, which would be nice if the implementation is as easy as this.
  • Set a maximum for simultaneous worker damage repair, as there is for other worker actions besides pollution. Bombardment damage removes roads, causing AI workers to waste turns getting to the damaged tile.
  • AI city governor should factor corruption and city improvements in citizen assignment. Often, governors chose a low-food, high production tile, even if the extra production makes no difference after corruption. But instead of comparing raw tile values when determining the next used tile, it's better to compare total food/production/commerce after corruption and city improvements.
  • Make AIs value Ivory more than other luxuries until the Statue of Zeus is completed. You can trade for Ivory at the same cost as any other luxury, and the imported ivory is sufficent to enable the wonder build.
  • Make AI with ivory place higher priority on Mathematics. Even with a ivory monopoly, the AI is known to research Mysticism, Polytheism, Philosophy, Map Making, and Literature before Mathematics.
  • Refine AI decision regarding declaration of war. This one is probably tough, but there is virtually no reason for an AI civ, without Map Making (or Writing!) and halfway around the world, to declare war on another civ. It gives a happiness bonus to the enemy, and potentially skews the AI's build choices disproportionately towards units in the early game. We are not sugesting a whole reworking of the war decision process -- but perhaps some sort of check on whether the AI can even actually mount any sort of an attack on the rival.
  • Restore PTW barbarian AI behavior. Barbarians often won't try to destroy a worker that is within two tiles, a 'massive uprising' often won't attack a neighboring city even if it is defended by a single spearman, and two barbarian units in a camp are known to not even bother to move when a city is founded (guarded by a spearman) one tile away, destroying the camp.
  • The AI should not declare war when running into a submarine, unless it really intends to do so. This was fixed in vanilla Civ3, but happens again in C3C.
  • The AI in Despotism should not normally irrigate grasslands without a food bonus. This was fixed in PTW but it happens again with C3C. In PTW, the AI used to irrigate grassland in Despotism only if it gained some benefit like bringing irrigation somewhere else.
  • Give some invisible benefits to Literature. With the addition of Wonders to previously low-priority required techs (Mathematics and Polytheism), the AI now usually ignores Literature until the Middle Ages. If you give Literature a benefit already given by Writing, such as Military Alliances, there will be no difference in game play, but the AI will research Literature earlier.

USER INTERFACE ENHANCEMENTS
  • Fix civil engineer display in city view The shields produced by the civil engineer are currently not added to the display of the city's total number of produced shields.
  • Domestic advisor: Highlight cities that are about to go into civil disorder (more unhappy than happy citizens) instead of cities that are already in disorder.
  • Remove the explore command from Leader, Catapult, Trebuchet, Cannon, Hwach'a, Artillery, Radar Artillery, Settler, Worker. These units are not meant for exploring territory, and the change reduces erroneous commands (the E key is right next to the W key!). You can currently fix this using the editor.
  • Display difficulty and AI aggression level on the Victory Status Screen
  • Skip battle animations along with movement animations when you hold down the SHIFT key. Currently, a nice (if obscure) feature is that even if you have 'animate friend/enemy moves' checked, you can temporarily change that to show but not animate moves by holding down the SHIFT key. It would be nice if this feature included battles as well as moves.
  • Please include a decimal point in the Victory Status Screen domination limits. The difference between 66% and 65% is often many tiles.

GENERAL SCENARIO HANDLING
  • Make it possible for scenarios that have a scenario folder to record their own highscore. Instead of not saving the highscore for scenarios, save them to a file in the scenarioname directory if that directory exists.

SCENARIO-SPECIFIC FIXES

EDITOR ENHANCEMENTS (might not be as easy)
  • Give Small Wonders access to the "Gain in every city" and "Doubles Happiness" flags.
  • Add a "requires tile improvement" dropdown for tile improvements in the editor. (barricades require fortresses, railroads require roads, etc)
  • Add a "Immune to lethal bombard" to units. This would allow air power to kill tanks but not infantry, for example. Alternatively, add a "lethal stealth attack" list, so we can select specific units that can be killed by a stealth attack. (One 'hack' to get this to work would be to overload the existing 'stealth attack targets' list so that when applied to a plane/artillery unit with 0 attack value and lethal bombard selected, it turns into a 'lethal bombard targets' list).
  • Add the ability to modify the rebase multiplier
  • Restore the shield cost upper limit to 10,000
  • Fix the "collateral damage" flag to work for bombard units, as described in the help file.
  • Add ability to edit army movement bonus
  • Define walls to be any city improvement with defensive bonus and bombard defense, or add a new property "works only for level-1 cities". With the current definition of walls (which is any improvement with bombard defense), it's not possible to add an improvement with bombard defense that works on cities above size-6.
  • In the units tab, add ability to change enslavement chance.

OTHER BUGS (introduced in C3C)
  • Feudalism still requires no maintenance costs in the German version.
  • Ground bombardment destroys improvements (even Wonders) before units, against the civ with the Great Wall.
  • Error in the #RACE_BYZANTINES section of PediaIcons.txt Under the neutral victory, Isabella is the leader head when it should be Theodora. Change art\leaderheads\x_isabell victory neutral.pcx to art\leaderheads\X2_Theodora advisor.pcx in that section.
 
I was able to trade Free Artistry after Shakes was built for big $. I believe this was fixed in previous patch.
 
You all got the benefit of RCP without knowing it before.

Heres my speculation on why you feel curroption is so high.

I dont think the order you put down cities in RCP mattered. Any city that ended up equal distance from the capital as another city would end up using RCP. I think youll find because of theway probabilities work after you get cranking with 16+ cities theres a large chance RCP was working for you even if you didnt place them intentionally.

For example if you set down a city at 2 distance from your capital. Then set down a city at 3. Then you set down a city at 2. IT didnt matter that you didnt intentionally use RCP the two at 2 distance would be at the same rank. Now extend this chaos to a dozen cities. where the number on the right is distance from capital and the number on the left is order of placement.
1)2
2)4
3)2
4)4
5)5
6)4
7)6
8)2
9)5
10) 7
11) 6
12) 6
rank before change (edited for accuracy)
1) 1
2) 4
3) 1
4) 4
5) 7
6) 4
7) 9
8) 1
9) 7
10) 12
11) 10
12) 10

Ok so thats the rank before. average rank per a city 5.7

Now after the change?



RANK after:
1) 1
2) 4
3) 2
4) 5
5) 8
6) 7
7) 9
8) 3
9) 6
10) 12
11)10
12)11

average rank per a city: 6.5

A pretty substantial increase in average rank. And youll also note that it begun to get larger faster.



Now the distances were made up but im just pointing out that RCP was always a factor even if you didnt use it.

The thing to do after the rules change might be just to recognize that but limit it. So calculate rank then make it 90% of its former value. So its not abusable like RCP but adjust to recognize that even non RCP strats were being influnced by the effect of RCP so people were used to it.


Im just reminding the developers that the curroption equation was tuned and play tested with the inadvertent effect of RCP. The removal of RCP implies the curroption equation isnt tuned anymore.
 
If they do a patch, then they should address something I've hated for a long time and that I see others commenting on...

The victory point total required for victory in "WW2 in the Pacific" is FAR too low and so the scenario ends after a mere 15-25 turns rather than coming close to the 50 turns allocated for the scenario.
 
jeremiahrounds, your speculation is not correct, but this is not the right thread for it in any case. See the RCP thread for details on how rank works.
 
I was counting cities wrong i fixed that. That was just an error in my understanding and once i wrote it out i sensed that and edited it out till i could look up the threads. Still the overall assertion that most people saw RCP effects without intending it is shown to be correct.

The assertion that order of city placement never mattered to RCP is correct unless you can find some data on those threads i missed.

The threads here say rank is detirmined by the number of cities closer then the city. Nothing on those threads says order of city placement is relevant. So you really couldnt escape RCP influences even if you tried.

Youll note that for example the late placed city at distance 2 in the example numbers. Under the old rules even though its the 8th city placed down it still jumps to rank 1 because there are no cities closer. After the rules change its rank 3. In both cases however all the cities at a greater distance move up a rank. But still the late influence of RCP is very potent. Consider the 6th city placed in the example. In the new rules its rank 7. But in the old rules its rank 3. Quite a big change but its just random placement being simulated.
 
1)MAKE HELICOPTERS HAVE AN AIR MISSION TO PICK UNITS UP!!!! Please :)

2)Some other uses for the UN might be nice (option to become a member/option to leave, when a member vote on all members doing trade embargo's or invading non members)

3)Allow us to post (or include) the rest of the PTW units not in C3C. This would make mods eaisier.
 
The two bugs I saw have been previosly mentioned but let me mention them again

AI is declaring war when running over a submarine.

Barbarians just fortify and sit in large stacks on their spawn point for some reason.

The Carp
"Can you SMELL what the CARP is cooking
 
First of all, I am very surprised at the increased value to bombers and their affect on the enemy unit (being able to kill them). Since Civ2 Test of Time the bombers and fighers have been pretty much useless. However there is still a problem of aireal combat. The system was adequate in civ2TOT where bombers were left in midair in the middle of turns and fighters could attack them, it would be nice to bring that back. Without that factor fighters are pretty much useless, especially considering that there is now flak.

Corruption is a huge problem but I believe it sets a realistic contraint on the game, not allowing larger civilizations to take complete advantage of the world. If you have 200 cities and they all have low corruption, this game will not be fun. Simply build strategic Forbidden Palace OR move your palace to a newly conquered land if it's resourceful.

The resources should be a little more abondant, as should luxuries.

There should be a unit step between Knights and Cavalry (as it was in TOT, Dragoons), also the original Phalanx and Legion were very good, no idea why they are gone now.

I am upset about one thing. Where are the Hebrews? It was once a one of the greatest and most prosperous early civilizations (Solomon, David until the Roman War), where Jerusalem was up to 2 million dwellers. The Jewish history is one of the most important in tales of Epic, suffering and victory and its missing. Their wars with phonecians, egyptians, babylonians, assyrians, greeks, romans, crusaders, spanish, german, polish, russian and most recently Arab instigators are known to ALL, where some of the latest Civs in CIV3Conquests are barely known.
 
I don't know if these are things that would go in a patch or not, but I thought I would throw them out and see what everyone thinks.

I think that it should cost you shields to heal units. The number of shields required should be some percentage of the original cost of the unit times the number of hit points to be healed. If you think about it, in order to "heal" a damaged infantry, tank, or whatever unit, you would have to assign new people/tanks/whatever to that unit. These new people, etc. would be taken from the "pool" of resources that would have been used to create entirely new units. In this way there would be consequences for having units damaged...they wouldn't just "heal for free."

The shields could be taken from all cities equally, so you wouldn't have to micromanage the healing of units. However, there could be an option on the city manager screen to not allow shields from a particular city to be diverted to heal units. You could use this for a city that was building something really important that you didn't want to get delayed.

I also think that bombing or bombarding a city should have a certain probability of destroying a random number of shields (up to a maximum based on type of unit doing the bombarding) in that city. In this way you could reduce the enemy's ability to produce new units or heal existing ones, in essence reduce his ability to wage war. This is the very definition of strategic bombing. There could even be a message that pops up saying "Sir, the enemy bombers destoryed X units of production."

Anyway, I would be interested to know what others think of these ideas.
 
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