Civ3 is too much about waging war

I always played quite peacefully until a few month ago, but I have to admit that it is far easier to win while having a lot of wars than by being peaceful. The leaders you can get to rush wonders, palaces etc... don't help to change that. And on deity you almost have npo other opportunbity than to wage war to grab land.

I play a lot of PBEM's and you are DOOMED if you decide to be peaceful. The warmonger always has the advantage (as long as you don't break treaties).

I think it's a shame. In the end I like negotiations and peaceful tactics a lot, if they would be implemented better.
 
Can anyone name me a time in the past, let's say 3000 years, when one part of the human race was not a war with another? I Can't

Can anyone name a 'Great' Civ who did not have wars/conflicts/force to become great? Once again I can't

There are people in every part of this globe, for one civ to expand it must do so into the land where another civ is, this will almost always leed to conflict. This is why I see no harm in wars being a BIG part of Civ3, or Civ4, as it's a big part of the real world.
 
As a veteran from Civ 1 & 2, I must say that I have never been such a warmonger until now in Civ3 in Deity. In Civ 1 & 2, I would very rarely go to war in the Ancient Times, but in Civ3 it's different. Of course it's a good and a bad point : good, because otherwise why the good of having antic units ? bad, because in Deity it's almost necessary to fight for land, which could be good, but nearly ALL the games end (errr... begin) like this.

I think that the Civ sequel is too war-oriented. It hasn't struck me that much until recently. I really love the new cultural dimension they added (and they could improve it). The idea of an economic victory sounds VERY interesting ; e.g. we could have to get a monopoly on a bunch or all of the resources... Diplomacy and trade could be improved, once again.

I think that the 2 major things about the relationships between nations are war and trade ; I even wanted to create a game named or subtitled like that. When 2 nations are at peace, they trade. When they're at war... they're at war. Civ3 already features this, but not too deeply IMO. Also, building a gigantic army is not a major problem in Civ3, even in the Ancient Times. All warmongering empires eventually found a size limit to their armies, because of limits of population, resources and money to support it... Combined with a tendency to stick with the same old strategies and tactics, and all armies someday found themselves obsolete and powerless. Ok, in Civ units become obsolete, but they upgrade. But, one day or the other, all empires reached their apex, before decadence. In Civ you are proposed to build an empire that will stand the test of time. So I think that going warmongering should have a real cost, and, once you have gained a certain amount of land, or destroyed an opponent, you should be forced to have a rest because of this huge cost. Think of the logistics part that is not represented at all in Civ, but that really was a huge effort for the Ancient empires, and it's still the case today (Iraq).

Word of conclusion : One could argue that Civ aims to be (quite !) simple and that it also deals with everything. That can be true. But additon by addition, we will somehow end up with a game that will be more realistic than ever, and still playable. What comforts me is when I see what has been implemented in this sequel so far. Remember battleships destroyed when attacking a phalanx on the shore in Civ1 ? ;)
 
Originally posted by kryszcztov
I think that the Civ sequel is too war-oriented. It hasn't struck me that much until recently. I really love the new cultural dimension they added (and they could improve it). The idea of an economic victory sounds VERY interesting ; e.g. we could have to get a monopoly on a bunch or all of the resources... Diplomacy and trade could be improved, once again.

An economic victory by getting a monopoly on certain resources sounds like a war-game to me ;) You're going to fight AI to claim the resources...

Alpha Centauri had the economic victory option, but it wasn't one of my favorites. I must say that I like the diplo in CIV3, but it could be improved indeed. Here lso Alpha Centauri is an example, especially on options regarding the UN.
 
Originally posted by kryszcztov
Diplomacy and trade could be improved, once again.

Diplomacy and trade are already good but yes: they can be improved (check my sign)

I think that the 2 major things about the relationships between nations are war and trade ; I even wanted to create a game named or
subtitled like that.

What about "Princes and Merchants" ?


, building a gigantic army is not a major problem in Civ3, even in the Ancient Times. All warmongering empires eventually found a size limit to their armies, because of limits of population, resources and money to support it... Combined with a tendency to stick with the same old strategies and tactics, and all armies someday found themselves obsolete and powerless.

I tweaked it so units cost 1 population. Really great and realistic.
 
Originally posted by chocmushroom
Can anyone name me a time in the past, let's say 3000 years, when one part of the human race was not a war with another? I Can't

Well, on Christmas during one of the World Wars, I can't remember exactly which one, I think it was the first, all of the fighting between France and Germany stopped and they all came into the center of battle and played soccer. Now if that's not peaceful, I don't know what is...

But, I wouldn't be surprised if a German player slit a French ref's throat over a bad call....
 
Yep, SMAC had an econommic victory condition, among others. IMPERIALISM is primarily a trading game... with war essential from time to time.
You can win, and I have, without ever going to war. However, if you want an Empire-- you have to take something other people already have -- namely, cities and lands. And resources. It is hard to make an omelet without breaking the shells.
 
Well, on Christmas during one of the World Wars, I can't remember exactly which one, I think it was the first, all of the fighting between France and Germany stopped and they all came into the center of battle and played soccer. Now if that's not peaceful, I don't know what is...

Very true, and it was WW1, the one with the Trenches. So I bow down to you. Proof that in the past 2500 years there has been at least a day with no war. :p

So now I hope everyone knows why there is so much war in Civ3.

Also, there have been wars for All diff types of reasons, most being religion, also many over land or resources and ideology. With WW1 as mentioned being the silliest, the main reson most ppl say is that Europe needed a war as it hadn't had one for a few years, killing some duke was just a reason given.
 
On emperor and deity, I agree. However, I really enjoy the different avenues to victory that Civ 3 allows. It is a vast improvement over Civ 2 in this area, and on Monarch and below, winning without warmongering is quite achievable.
 
Hey, it's wasn't just "some duke" - it was an archduke! :)

Contrarily to some here, I find Civ3 less combat-oriented than Civ2; in particular the AI is less prone to suicidal sneak attacks. In Civ2 I usually fought because some AI (=Artificial Idiocy) had attacked me, and didn't stop till I put 'em out*. In Civ3 many wars are either fought to secure some resources or because some AI jumps at a realistic chance of defeating me.

* I don't want to know how many games of Civ2 I won by conquest without ever initiating a war or doing anything purposefully to annoy an AI.
 
Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Hey, it's wasn't just "some duke" - it was an archduke! :)

And once again, if I remember correctly, it was Archduke Francis Ferdinand, and he was assassinated by a group known as the Black Hand...
 
Originally posted by kryszcztov
So I think that going warmongering should have a real cost, and, once you have gained a certain amount of land, or destroyed an opponent, you should be forced to have a rest because of this huge cost.

But I do this anyway. :cool: Wouldn't bother me if they put something like that in.
 
Fact is that we have a link to Szun Tsu's "The art of war" and NOT to Adam Smiths "The wealth of nations"
 
Originally posted by chocmushroom


Very true, and it was WW1, the one with the Trenches. So I bow down to you. Proof that in the past 2500 years there has been at least a day with no war.

In one place in the world.
 
Originally posted by Greadius
Wars are fun :D

Peaceful games tend to ... :sleep:

Now, if that is what you enjoy, you might be playing the wrong game... though I don't have suggestions towards more 'others' oriented global non-conquest games.


I know! My Friend likes to "Not kill the as fast" What is the point. iF you can win in the Ancient then do it.
 
if anything they should make more realistic it is the warfare. the units I belive are to represent hundreds or even thousands of people rather than just 1 infantry it is a group of many infantry
(from dictionary.com on a unit) A group regarded as a distinct entity within a larger group. so our units are several people not just 1 and our larger group is all our whole military. I know it has happend but it rarely does (in real life) when you fight a unit you usually don't kill every one of them. so you shouldn't just kill a whole unit they should make it where you could take some of the people back as prisoners of war, make them slaves or even make them serve to fight in your military. I have no clue how this could be implemented, but i'm not a hot shot game designer making lots of money

also they should have actually battle strategies so it's not just up front warfare. sure you get defense bonus and stuff, but it would be nice if you could hide in a forest and then sneak attack them
 
Too much war already and then we get "Civ3: Conquests"...



I'm not necessarily agreeing with you, but had they taken MY advice it would have been called "Civ3: Golden Ages" and centre around scenarios of the main Civs historic Golden Age.

Who knows, maybe that will come in yet another expansion pack ;)
 
Wars are what make civ 3 fun. I always have at least four or five wars in each game.
 
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