Civ7 Exploration Age - Religion - Tactics and Thoughts

[vorlon_mi]

I opened the Civiliopedia, which described the various beliefs. It didn't answer some of my more fundamental questions, so I'm starting the discussion here.
I'm talking about the initial launch (Vanilla) before we get any expansions in the future.

Founding: Religions can be founded and spread only during the Exploration Age. Every civ can found one, so no competition as in Civ4, 5, or 6.
Building a Temple in a city will found your religion.

Beliefs: Upon founding your religiion, you choose your Reliquary belief, how you earn relics. By researching one of the Theology civics, you choose an enhancer belief. I don't (yet) know how to gan additional beliefts for the religtion. The box says, "through gameplay", but I don't know what that means.

Offense: Build missionary units and visit opponent's cities or city-states. If a settlement has both rural and urban districts, the missionary must use a charge in each type to convert the city. If converting the city matches your goal for getting a relic, you receive a relic which contributes towards a legacy path.

Defense: All of the players (human and AI) are trying to convert cities. I haven't found any way to play defense. The missionaries don't seem to be attackable or blockable. They can enter your territory without open borders; they can enter if you're at war.

Questions:

1. What's the goal of converting your own cities? Some founding beliefts give you gold or another yield for *every* settlementt following your religion, so there's that. But AFAICT none of the relilquary beliefs apply to your own cities, only to opponent cities.
2. I'm tempted to build a group of missionaries and partk them in my cities. As the crisis at the end of the age intensifies, I would send them around to ensure that all of my settlements are converted, right before the Age ends. Is that worth it? Are there any benefits to having a city follow my religion in the Modern Age?
3. How do I add more beliefs to my religtion? I could see beneifts to spreading my religion to my cities if I've equipped the religtion with beliefs with bonuses.

 

[Zigs]

What's the goal of converting your own cities? Some founding beliefts give you gold or another yield for *every* settlementt following your religion, so there's that. But AFAICT none of the relilquary beliefs apply to your own cities, only to opponent cities.

From my understanding (not an expert player by any means), converting your own cities gives you that settlement bonus but also forces opponent missionaries to have to use 2 charges to convert your city as opposed to 1 for the first time conversion, making their spread slower.

I'm tempted to build a group of missionaries and partk them in my cities. As the crisis at the end of the age intensifies, I would send them around to ensure that all of my settlements are converted, right before the Age ends. Is that worth it? Are there any benefits to having a city follow my religion in the Modern Age?

This is what I did, I had some sleep in my cities and as soon as I saw a opponent was trying to convert my city I'd wake them and use a charge on Urban/Rural. From what I can tell there's 2 icons on your city, the left one is urban and the right one is rural. So whichever one is different you have to use a charge on that district. Urban districts being where you've built buildings/wonders, rural being your farms/mines/etc. The game doesn't let you waste a charge which is good, so once you move into a spot that converts anything it will be highlighted and usable.

I think there's a wildcard that allows you to keep all of your converted cities with your chosen bonuses into the modern age but religion pretty much ceases and the focus is on Explorers digging up artifacts. Was tough for me to tell but I imagine that's the perk of spreading your religion through other Civs is the chance to stack the bonus into the next age. Definitely need more info on this.

How do I add more beliefs to my religtion? I could see beneifts to spreading my religion to my cities if I've equipped the religtion with beliefs with bonuses.

I actually couldn't find any answers to this, seems like everyone is confused about it. Even the online wiki just says "more can be unlocked through gameplay" so idk if it's a Civic or maybe a memento you unlock through leveling up the foundation path?

It's crucial for a culture victory but kind of tedious and not very well explained, still an upgrade from Civ 6 though.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Currently, it feels like "whack a mole" during the middle of the age, as foreign missionaries come through in waves converting my cities. Repetitive, not very fun. I will recheck my belief choices, to see if it's worthwhile to do an end-of-age reconversion. That's assuming that the beliefs (like Tithe) carry over into Modern Age.

 

[magicq99]

I think a workable solution to block missionaries might be religion-based diplomatic actions.

For example, there could be a kind of "religious" alliance option, with both sides promising not to convert each others cities. This could even be combined with bonusses for trade routes between cities following "allied" religions.

Likewise, there could be a "religious" diplomatic sanction, which if enacted blocks the missionaries of the targeted player, but results in an appropriate negative relationship.

 

[wesplaysciv]

Missionaries do appear to be blocked by walls if you are at war with a civ... but to stop conversion you'd need all your urban districts surrounded by walls

Agree that religion is very dull right now, very limited benefits to converting your own cities (though some of the crises seem to make it more important...)

It's helpful for the military legacy too as you get double points if you also convert the city

Lots more features I hope they build, plus interactions... definitely should be diplomatic actions relating to it, passive spread (trade routes/roads)

 

[vorlon_mi]

As the Exploration Age comes to an end in my current game, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not worth it to re-convert my own cities.
Among the reasons are:

• my belief (Tithe) only gives *me* benefits (gold) if cities of *other* civs follow my religition
• I see a couple of social policies that increase yields for my cities that follow my religion, but they are not traditions. They will not carry over to the next age.
• I realized (a little late) that I could get legacy points for converting cities in Distant Lands, regardless of whether they *stay* converted. So I am putting my miissionaries in boats (embarking) to spend their charges on the other continent, to maybe pick up a legacy point.

Each game I learn something more about how to play!

 

[Uberfrog]

Yes, religion as currently implemented is only about one thing - securing Relics to complete the Legacy path.

All the Reliquary beliefs are around converting foreign cities. So that is what you and the AI are incentivised to do. Converting your own cities is a hopeless whack-a-mole, as your opponents will just convert them again. Which means Founder beliefs based on total number of cities converted are not hugely reliable, and certainly Social Policies which require your cities to follow your religion… are not good.

So the strategy is to get Religion early, pick the stronger beliefs (Relics from Distant Lands, conversion from trade routes), and then you just need to convert the required number of cities to complete the culture path.

As you say, the relic is for first time conversion. It doesn’t matter if the religion sticks. So missionaries just need to go out, target cities, move onto the next one.

 

[Trakanon]

In the theology civic tree I noticed there are are two social policies that greatly boost yields for settlements following your own religion, any feedback on how powerful this is?

 

[jaegermeister]

it adds unnecessary macro in exploration age, forces you to build temples and produce missionaries. i usually go full military and wipe out the civilization that collected the most relics to prevent a loss.

this game fails to create enough incentive to go for any other victory type than military/domination for me. whatever i do, i end up having to wipe out the entire map with my military. looks like there is no other way than that for me.

 

[Serenya]

In the theology civic tree I noticed there are are two social policies that greatly boost yields for settlements following your own religion, any feedback on how powerful this is?

It was very helpful in mine, coupled with the belief that caused new settlements to automatically follow my religion - but the amount of needing to reconvert get tiresome. On the plus side, the founding city cannot be subverted, and creating a missionary is always for your religion, even if the settlement it's created in was converted by the AI.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

They really need to allow some "defense" against missionaries. I literally went to war because a neighbor wouldn't keep his spread out of my lands when I was running the +15% civics, and I still couldn't keep him out. The whole system is rather simplistic and needs a revamp as it seems this thread lays out.

 

[jaegermeister]

They really need to allow some "defense" against missionaries. I literally went to war because a neighbor wouldn't keep his spread out of my lands when I was running the +15% civics, and I still couldn't keep him out. The whole system is rather simplistic and needs a revamp as it seems this thread lays out.

If we add a policy card, say, inquisition or whatever, we could ban missionaries from other religions, or the ones that we pick from a list.

 

[Acken]

They really need to allow some "defense" against missionaries. I literally went to war because a neighbor wouldn't keep his spread out of my lands when I was running the +15% civics, and I still couldn't keep him out. The whole system is rather simplistic and needs a revamp as it seems this thread lays out.

Currently one of the worst mechanic of the game. So frustrating.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It's crucial for a culture victory but kind of tedious and not very well explained, still an upgrade from Civ 6 though.

As far as I can see they dropped the interesting bits from 6 and doubled down on the worst parts! Edit:To be clear I'm talking about religion.

 

[ZeroSuitSenpai]

As far as I can see they dropped the interesting bits from 6 and doubled down on the worst parts!

Culture victory in general in Civ 7 needs a whole revamp. Exploration + Modern age culture is a total wash. And religion deserves to be something bigger than being a relic generator for one era of culture.

 

[Fluffball]

Converting your own cities only really has an effect for the military path. Defending the religion in your own cities only really has much effect during certain crisis...I have started turning off crisis as they don't really add anything interesting and are just annoying.

The only real advantage to religion in the exploration age is however you choose to get relics...I just pick converting city states as you get 2 relics from each conversation which is more than others, no one else seems to bother converting them so you only need one charge each time (can do culture legacy with 2 missionaries) and most of the others rely on certain conditions the game doesn't inform you about apart from studiously checking each cities individual tiles or simply guessing.

You can max both legacy paths with 4 missionaries...less if you capture a city and convert it (giving 4 instead if two points).

 

[The Mighty Quinn]

In the theology civic tree I noticed there are are two social policies that greatly boost yields for settlements following your own religion, any feedback on how powerful this is?

I think people underestimate them. You do need to produce or buy a stream of missionaries to keep them converted, but I think it’s arguably worth it, especially as you can get those civics fairly early in the Age.

 

[The Mighty Quinn]

They really need to allow some "defense" against missionaries. I literally went to war because a neighbor wouldn't keep his spread out of my lands when I was running the +15% civics, and I still couldn't keep him out. The whole system is rather simplistic and needs a revamp as it seems this thread lays out.

I’m not saying it’s a great or super fun system, but there IS a defense, you just need to spam your own missionaries. Or you can decide to use that production otherwise and forfeit those boosts.

 

[The Mighty Quinn]

Having said that, historically many governments have effectively outlawed heresy, so it does seem like there should be some sort of policy that could slow them down.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Having said that, historically many governments have effectively outlawed heresy, so it does seem like there should be some sort of policy that could slow them down.

I would suggest that war should be a defense. It is literally the reason for many wars throughout history AND in the homeland during war, the local religion is the only one allowed to be dominant.