Civics feel underwhelming

[manu-fan]

Hi,

Played a few hours, and am I the only one who's finding Civics a bit underwhelming? You get a couple of cards, and maybe unlock something else, but it just doesn't feel half as good as getting a new Policy in Civ V.

I've also seen that no one mentions a Monument in the early build order for a city. This is probably because Civics are underwhelming.

What are your thoughts?

 

[dtfauss]

Civics like Tech seem to come along at a pretty quick pace, especially when focus/beelining
While it may not 'feel half as good' - switching out policy cards makes a huge difference (a little micro managy)
You'll read about folks who utilize the builder discount, the settler discount, unit discount, unit cheaper, ancient wonder discount, etc, all at certain moments in their empire to push that phase forward. Just doing it one time, isn't a big effect, but if you plan and switch as appropriate, the effect becomes much greater over time (benefit).

 

[chazzycat]

yeah, the policy system provides more benefits, the more you plan ahead. Which I think is good design. For example, lining up eureka moments so you have a really short window to apply the discounted unit upgrade policy, having a big gold stash to apply the upgrades, then quickly switching back to something better.

 

[Big J Money]

Once we are really fine tuning initial builds and starts, etc, I don't think you can continue to make this claim. Maybe at first glance the bonuses look small, but if you take the time to really examine them, many are quite effective.

I'm sure there are some that will need a buff to be competitive. I can't for the life of me seem to find ways to gain XP for my scouts, so I'm really glad I didn't use that Policy (2x a very small number is still pretty small). But this could be the luck of my games, so far.

 

[Uberfrog]

I prefer them to Social policies, but yeah they come too rapidly to be exciting in and of themselves. That's not the point though. As a mechanic they offer a much more adaptable and customisable government than social policies, and feel like a better job of representing what your civ is focusing on at a particular time.

The government types feel like a big change now though.

 

[redwings1340]

Ive been finding them very powerful. Switching to a new government is always exciting, and the policy cards can be extremely good at the right time. I recently learned that logistics (plus one movement for units that start in your territory) effects builders too, and that's become one of my favorite peacetime policies. Extra builder charge, faster unit production, more envoys, gold for envoys, adjacency bonus boosts, plus settler speed, and better buildings/trade routes can all be great in the right situation.

As for an early game monument, its more telling of how much you want to do at the start of the game than of how powerful civics is. Your first priority is not dying, which means scouts or singers, and builders to get more of those. Im not sure monument first is all that bad though, getting faster political philosophy is nice. Still, a scout and an early envoy in a cultural city state is better.

 

[dexters]

Civics and policies are actually pretty awesome. Legacy bonusus are nice too as it tips it's hat to the fact that governments and policies do not exist in isolation so it's nice to get that merchant republic legacy bonus and pair it with a democracy. +gold and cheaper rush buys gave synergy.

The ararchy penalty for switching back to a previous government seems aimed squarely at preventing people from doing the civic waffling. Though no doubt someone will find a way to make it work.

That said It feels more like a real government than any previous iterations of governments/civics or social policies

Only thing I'd chage is UI. When a policy becomes outdated and needs to be replaced it needs to be very clear that is what is happening. I had the game pop open my government window with an empty policy slot many times in my first game and I initially did not make the connection it was telling me to replace an outdated policy. Usually the replacement is just another policy giving a more powerful version of what I got previously

 

[Solitude]

I absolutely love it. Although i only have Civ 5 BNW experience in terms of civ games i really like this new layout.

Make short-term plans (in your grand scheme of things) and set policy-cards thereafter.

edit: agree completely with Dexters in his second paragraph. A small exclamation mark is not ideal for new policies. I´d rather see a slight fade on old policies while new ones show the full vibrant color.

 

[manu-fan]

Yeah, the only ones I find exciting are the ones that allow me to change Governments. I guess I'll have a closer look at it next time.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I agree that the UI is part of the problem here. The social policy screen was a thing of beauty and clarity. The civics screen is a mess of trying to read tiny type on these identical-looking cards. We need unique icons for the cards (or at least icons that suggest what bonus the card will have).

Nonetheless, I like the civics system. The reason you don't hear people suggest an early monument is a) the early game is a really dangerous place, and you need units ASAP (I'm going Slinger-Slinger to start now, and I might change that to Warrior-Slinger-Slinger) and b) the extra culture makes it harder to get some Eurekas in time, so some of it is wasted.

 

[Zhahz]

I kind of disagree. I love the govt and civic system in 6. Way more customization and flexibility. The power of each civic depends on your situation, so yeah, as others have said, planning and picking up civics that fit your needs is a factor.

 

[dwarfling]

I disagree, I like the new new civics system. Althouuuugh, it seems to me I'm gonna be using the same cards a lot of the times. But I like the idea and implementation.

 

[Ozisl]

I also love the new system... but for lulz, it would be nice to be able to have more card slots, just for more customization within your game style.

 

[qadams]

I agree that the UI is part of the problem here. The social policy screen was a thing of beauty and clarity. The civics screen is a mess of trying to read tiny type on these identical-looking cards. We need unique icons for the cards (or at least icons that suggest what bonus the card will have).

Nonetheless, I like the civics system. The reason you don't hear people suggest an early monument is a) the early game is a really dangerous place, and you need units ASAP (I'm going Slinger-Slinger to start now, and I might change that to Warrior-Slinger-Slinger) and b) the extra culture makes it harder to get some Eurekas in time, so some of it is wasted.

I'm in agreement with this. The system of civics and governments in Civ 6 is terrific, but the execution of the display (the UI) leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[King Jason]

I disagree, apart from the initial handful of districts, particularly everyone's two favorites - I think the Civic tree feels as if it's by far the more useful of the two.

I'll agree the display is crap - also I'd like the ability to remove a policy with one click and fill a policy slot with 1 click. I feel like ever since civ 5, Firaxis is all about mouse movement. Everyone at Firaxis must have carpal tunnel.

 

[Mahatmajon]

I agree that the UI is part of the problem here. The social policy screen was a thing of beauty and clarity. The civics screen is a mess of trying to read tiny type on these identical-looking cards. We need unique icons for the cards (or at least icons that suggest what bonus the card will have).

Well that's a fantastically good idea. They color code the cards already and use icons for things that already have icons like amenity, science, production, great people points, & trade routes but having an icon for Adjacency bonuses or districts or bolding/color coding words for districts (theater square district, Holy Site, Harbor district, etc) would make a ton of sense. I'm sure there's even a logical set of categories that could be color ocded along the top title bars.

Now that I'm thinking about this screen it would be nice to be able to move the cards around, too -- like putting some off to the side and lining up my next moves.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I disagree, apart from the initial handful of districts, particularly everyone's two favorites - I think the Civic tree feels as if it's by far the more useful of the two.

I agree. The ancient/classical eras of the tech tree are exciting as you unlock the important districts, the first of each unit type, and all the tile improvements. But then right about after you get Apprenticeship (for Industrial Zones), the tech tree starts to feel really barren and uninteresting. A lot of techs are just pathetic. Rifling only unlocks a recon unit. Telecommunications only unlocks one naval unit. And several techs only unlock one wonder, which you may not even be able to build anywhere due to terrain requirements.

The civics tree, in contrast, feels adequately fleshed out. Each civic unlock at least 2 policy cards, and most of them unlock further stuff on top of that. There's a much greater chance that a late-game civic will have something useful than a late-game tech will.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

Of all the new stuff in Civ6, the civics are IMO the best; hearkens back to the way civ4 did governments.

Though the interface could be better; lots of cards on screen, all with small text and no iconography leads to information overload.

 

[LoneDragon]

The ararchy penalty for switching back to a previous government seems aimed squarely at preventing people from doing the civic waffling. Though no doubt someone will find a way to make it work.

You take the ones you aren't going to use or use any time soon (especially the dead-ends on the tree) and when you are one turn away from getting them, you switch to research a different one. Save the ones with a single turn left for when you want to make a quick free policy switch.

 

[Haggbart]

I love the new system because CiV was just accumulating bonuses. And since some bonuses were better than other, you basically ended up doing pretty much the same each game. Now I find myself switching a lot between different cards depending on my situation and plans for the next turns.. The UI is also more than good enough, so overall a huge step forward from CiV. It feels like they melted the civics from cIV and the social policies from CiV into a flexible system and kept it seperate from teching (which was not the case in cIV). So overall big thumbs up, one of my favourite additions to the game.